Jump to content








Photo

Huper Optik C70 vs. V-Kool 70 vs. Photochromic films?


  • Please log in to reply
36 replies to this topic

#1 S.Chen

S.Chen

    New Member

  •  >10
  • 9
  • Exp: 0

  02 November 2010 - 07:42 PM

Hi all,

I'm a new home owner, and am very keen to install solar film on the windows of my condominium apartment.

I live in tropical and sunny Singapore (home of Novomatrix which owns V-Kool and Huper Optik).

I've been following posts in these forums to try and better understand the products that I have been seeing.

My apartment is located next to a river and faces the morning sun, and as I mainly have bay windows without any external shading, it gets really hot. I also have no building east of me to block the morning sun.

At present, I think I'm down to a choice between the following films:

Comparison Table
- iQue 78FG VLT 77% / IRR 77% / TSER 45%
- iQue 73FG VLT 70% / IRR 95% / TSER 56% V-Kool 70
- Huper C70 VLT 71% / IRR 91% / TSER 47%
- Llumar AIR 80 VLT 78% / IRR 89% / TSER 43%
- Llumar AIR 75 VLT 73% / IRR 68% / TSER 39%
- Illume 80 VLT 79% / IRR 75% / TSER 46% photochromic film (ie. Transitions-type film)
- Illume 70 VLT 74% / IRR 79% / TSER 54% photochromic
- Mirage 73 VLT 74% / IRR 58% / TSER 43%

Ref.
- http://www.iquefilms...lySelective.asp
- http://www.huperopti...mart/clear.aspx
- http://www.businessf.../159904/170575/ -- the latter sent me a test report done by Sancho Japan but it is quite dated



The last three are by a start-up private label company in Singapore, but which has so far offered the best service and warranty. The founder/principal of the last company is a 13-year veteran (who was at one point with V-Kool) and we've had a good discussion so far, during which he has tried to educate me about the different types of solar films (and had even advised me which of their competitor's films to select if I don't use them). Warranty is also for 15 years (which may be less relevant in the case of a start-up vs. an established name).

More interestingly, they have offered to visit 3 times during the post-sales process ( 1. during installation, 2. one week after installation to inspect the curing process, and 3. one month after the installation to inspect the cured film and do a BTU test), and have offered to replace the entire window of solar films if a defect is found (not just the specific pane). They have offered the latter as their belief is that if there is a defect in one pane, it is likely to affect the whole batch of films used for the other panes. And it also helps to minimise any problems with different panes having different colours due to a shift in colour between production batches.


Would the community have any advice for me on what to choose given the proximity to a river and tropical weather and about 3 miles from the sea? Is the level of service and warranty proposed by the private label company typical of the industry? Would their level of warranty negate any doubts about them not carrying a brand name film?


Thanks in advance for any advice,
Stephen Chen
Singapore

This post has been promoted to an article
  • 0

#2 VIP tint + glass

VIP tint + glass

    Member

  •  3,000+
  • 3,466
  • southern cali
  • Exp: 18



  02 November 2010 - 09:58 PM

havent heard anything good about those photochromatic film

heard nothing but good about the other 2 youve listed
  • 0

#3 S.Chen

S.Chen

    New Member

  •  >10
  • 9
  • Exp: 0

  03 November 2010 - 12:50 AM

Dear VIP,

Thanks for your advice.

I just met up with the local installer for Huper's residential films and finally got to see a sample of the Ceramic 70.

A quick description:
- colour is a bit blue, similar to the Llumar AIR 80. (I've been told that TiN is supposed to be yellow / golden in colour?)
- optical clarity (with liner) is much better than the 3M Prestige 70, but much poorer than VK70, and slightly poorer than the Illume 70 and Llumar AIR 80.

The sales staff also brought a heat lamp and BTU meter along. They assured me it wasn't a "rigged" infra-red lamp. Since I couldn't stick my other film samples on their pieces of glass, we put in a piece of clear glass, and then held a letter-side sheet of film (with liner) in front of the glass.


Lamp readings:
- no glass 430
- clear 6mm glass 316
- iQue 73FG 30+ (think it is a G2 film)
- Huper C70 42
- Illume 70 42
- Llumar 80 48
- Mirage 73 50+



So the V-Kool still seems to have the best performance of the lot, still has the best clarity of all, has a light green colour that is pleasant for viewing the trees across the river, but oxidation, colour stability (have seen VK70 in shades of green, blue and grey), and electronic signal interference issues still worry me.

Do you encounter such issues in your work? Am I being overly worried over nothing?


Thanks and regards,
Stephen
Singapore
  • 0

#4 *Retnitorp *

*Retnitorp *
  • Guests

  03 November 2010 - 03:41 AM

You think that V-K 70 is green you should have seen G1, but i have a feeling you know this.

As far as TiN it would be colorless in such a thin form, however in a bulk form it would be yellowish to grey in color.
  • 0

#5 S.Chen

S.Chen

    New Member

  •  >10
  • 9
  • Exp: 0

  03 November 2010 - 04:16 AM

Hi Retnitorp,

Unfortunately, I haven't actually seen or heard of the G1 in Singapore.

The samples of VK70 I've seen come in light green, green-blue and grey.

While I really like the colour, I'm getting really really annoyed with the delays from the sales team. If this is what pre-sales is like, I'd hate to think what the post-sales service will be like (eg. for replacement of oxidised films, even if it is the G3 version which is not supposed to require an edge seal).

(I understand that the V-Kool G3 film might be a hybrid film? Maybe like the Llumar hybrid matrix?)


As for Huper Optik, so if the Ceramic 70 film is blue in colour, does this mean that they did not sputter TiN into it?


Thanks and regards,
Stephen
Singapore
  • 0

#6 peachy

peachy

    New Member

  •  >10
  • 22



  03 November 2010 - 09:20 AM

- optical clarity (with liner) is much better than the 3M Prestige 70, but much poorer than VK70, and slightly poorer than the Illume 70 and Llumar AIR 80.


so am i understanding this correctly.... you're saying that the 3M is at the bottom in terms of clarity (with liner). however wouldn't checking clarity with the liner on not mean a thing since the liner is removed anyways?

did you check the performance of this 3M film with the lamp? i was leaning towards this because i'm a little worried about the VK's oxidation issue also.

Edited by peachy, 03 November 2010 - 09:27 AM.

  • 0

#7 S.Chen

S.Chen

    New Member

  •  >10
  • 9
  • Exp: 0

  03 November 2010 - 10:19 AM

Hi Peachy,

Just read your post on choosing a film for the tropics ... but guess you're using film on a different type of residential glass? But otherwise, it sounds like we are both facing the same challenges!

Yes, I didn't remove the liners, which makes it easier for me to put them in a folder and compare them to other samples sourced from various brands / private labels. I basically assume that the liners pretty much all have the same clarity (plus minus a little standard deviation).

But even if I partially peel the liner off my letter-sized sample, you can still see if the base film is fuzzy or not, especially if you look at the film at an angle (which is likely to happen when you stand close to your window and survey the scene outside). The only other film which looks just as fuzzy is the Llumar AIR 75 (green tint). I understand that Llumar makes some of the films for 3M Prestige. (Ref. http://www.renotalk....h...1&hl=llumar -- search for "Llumar")

Unfortunately, I did not "test" the 3M Prestige films by placing it between the heat lamp and the BTU meter. But from what I remember from past tests, it is pretty effective.

Where I really don't like the Prestige 70 is the "orange peel" effect which cause the scenery to look fuzzy. Sort of like applying a soft focus filter on a camera lens. Also, its heat rejecting properties are in the scratch resistant coat. Try taking a pen knife and scratching the film, it will scratch off. Now imagine a grain of sand on your cleaning cloth when you wipe the windows ... (Ref. http://www.tintdude....php/t37004.html + http://acurazine.com...p...7884&page=1 -- search for the term "peel")

Comparing the Huper Optik and the 3M Prestige films, you might want to take a look at this article by Mike Feldman. Mike was with 3M for a very long time. Here's the link to the page, where you can also find links to some white papers countering 3M's marketing claims ... http://advancedfilmf...-solutions.aspx

And regarding use of V-Kool in an environment near the sea, take a look at this link. It is a case study of the Singapore Coast Guard using iQue 73FG (ie. V-Kool 70) for their patrol boat in the sea! Unfortunately, I am unable to call the captain of the boat to ask how oxidised the window film looks. (Ref. http://www.iquefilms.com/Special.asp)

But if the G3 version has really fixed the oxidation issue and I don't have to worry about handphone signal issues, then I'd be a really happy camper. :-)



Cheers,
Stephen
  • 0

#8 *Retnitorp *

*Retnitorp *
  • Guests

  03 November 2010 - 04:11 PM

glycol dimercapto acetate
  • 0

#9 kats2112

kats2112

    Member

  •  3,000+
  • 3,741
  • Spring, Texas
  • Exp: Tinting Texas since 1985



  03 November 2010 - 06:15 PM

Why not look at Huper Sech. I think you'll like it. :dunno

Edited by kats2112, 03 November 2010 - 06:16 PM.

  • 0

#10 S.Chen

S.Chen

    New Member

  •  >10
  • 9
  • Exp: 0

  03 November 2010 - 09:19 PM

Why not look at Huper Sech. I think you'll like it. :lol6



Thanks for the suggestion. I just called the local Huper rep. They said that it is a metallised film that they no longer carry for the Singapore market.
  • 0

#11 S.Chen

S.Chen

    New Member

  •  >10
  • 9
  • Exp: 0

  03 November 2010 - 09:35 PM

glycol dimercapto acetate



Hi Retnitorp,

I'm sorry, but what is that? I don't understand the hits that come back when I google the term.


Stephen
  • 0

#12 EWF

EWF

    Member

  •  Subscribers
  • 1,586
  • Danbury, CT USA
  • Exp: Since 1982



  05 November 2010 - 09:14 AM

Comparison Table
- iQue 78FG VLT 77% / IRR 77% / TSER 45%
- iQue 73FG VLT 70% / IRR 95% / TSER 56% V-Kool 70
- Huper C70 VLT 71% / IRR 91% / TSER 47%
- Llumar AIR 80 VLT 78% / IRR 89% / TSER 43%
- Llumar AIR 75 VLT 73% / IRR 68% / TSER 39%
- Illume 80 VLT 79% / IRR 75% / TSER 46% photochromic film (ie. Transitions-type film)
- Illume 70 VLT 74% / IRR 79% / TSER 54% photochromic
- Mirage 73 VLT 74% / IRR 58% / TSER 43%


Hi S. Chen,

You are doing a lot of homework and that's good, but are you overlooking the most important and comprehensive performance parameters?

Shading Coefficient (& Solar Heat Gain Coefficient).

Please see:
http://www.iwfa.com/...F...C on IR.pdf

Also note that the NFRC rates films based upon SHGC, not IR or TSEr.

Focusing on these performance parameters (SC/SHGC) will open the range of choices for you, including non-Ceramics such as Sputtered Nichrome and Dual Reflective products that cost considerably less and might have better SC/SHGC numbers.

-Howard
  • 0


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users