"rough" side of tempered glass

[Guest bigboyk2000]

So lately it seems that every job I do has at least one window were I have to tint the "rough/pitted" side of tempered glass. I always do my best to warn the customers when I come across them, but I always feel like they think I am bs'ing them (even though I show them the window before I start the work). does anyone know where I can find some literature or something I can show the customer when I come across these situations.

[Guest Almo]

Ok ok....

I was wondering.... WTF?? THEN I started thinking about it..........

Here is a recording of exactly what you are talking about... BUT.. I have never had an issue with this ever on applications... The largest glass being 60" x 15 Linear feet long... 10 of them.. Tempered LAMINATED Glass.... just use caution.. normal stuff.. you know.

http://www.scratched-glass.net/smoothrough.wav

This recording will give you an indication of what to listen for.

A microphone was attached to a scraper..... the scraper was placed on a piece of tempered glass, pushed a short way, then lifted and placed on a nearby piece of tempered glass which was loaded with fabricating debris and pushed again - lightly, so as not to scratch the glass.

The smooth surface that you hear first would have been the top side when that particular piece of glass was tempered, and the rough surface you hear next was the bottom - the side that was touching rollers when that particular piece of glass passed through the tempering oven.

The tinkling sound you hear is little glass fines and other fabricating debris. This is the "tinkle test".... If you've never heard this before, you'll be impressed - or maybe you'll think we faked it.

If you hear this sound, you cannot apply pressure with a scraper, because if you do, some of this fabricating debris will become trapped under the scraper and scratch the glass.

Caution - Fabricating debris is variable, and this is a more extreme example. It won't always sound this bad, and you cannot count on feeling or hearing this surface defect while you are working - particularly on a messy construction site.

So..

There you go.

Almo

[Guest metro jim]

Hey

This issue has become a major problem with glass cleaning. The window cleaners association covers this issue in detail as with http://www.scratched-glass.net/ . The "dirty side" "tin side" flatter side" has to do with the glass floating on the molten tin. The "tin side" just has more minerals in it, and I do not think there is any effect on the film (because the metal is sandwiched between 2 layers of film most the time) , but becomes an issue when coating the glass directly like in Low e glass (though many say it doesn't matter either) and also whe they make laminated glass because the air (I tink its da air side?) side is flatter and binds better causing less breakage in the autoclave or something like that.

James

[WearTheFoxHat]

There are other threads here at TD on the subject.

I forget which scraper manufacturer has some tips re cleaning glass but in short Pay attention to the "logo " side of tempered glass. The non logo side of the glass is the side that scratches REALLY easy!!!

[Guest metro jim]

The scratching from the tempering debis defect is on only some glass manufacturers tempered glass not all. With the building boom gone you may find that some of the bigger name brands (in windows and distributors) will weed out those due to the law suits and replacement issues

[TINT]

if you dont need to scrape the window then dont scrape! as all tempered units will scratch no matter what.

[tuttle]

I hate that glass. hard times, helping the customer understand the flaws. rule of thumb. plated glass, always test the glass with a scrap peice, so the customer understands that the glass has some issues. telling them that it looks like dirt, but is the glass manufacturer's bad workman ship, telling them to look beyond the glass. not to be staired at and picked apart. and not seen ata disstance. {ya-right} tell them they still need sun glasses

[Guest metro jim]

Any piece of tempered glass that scratches from scraping is defective and there have been a number of lawsuits on this. I used a plastic scrub pad and got scratches on one peice of glass, trust me this isn't normal.

http://www.iwca.org/content.asp?ContentID=36

Use this link and find out all about this. Some manufacturer of glass have fixed the issues they had some rarely ever have the issue and others just dont seem to care. I think that our industry should be united with the IWCA on this one.

PS if the link doesn't work try

http://www.iwca.org/ and look for tempered glass, it will be there.

[Guest Unscratch]

Personally with all the lawsuits, I dont think the issue of scratched tempered glass is going away. We had a nice discussion with a board member of the IWCA last week and they were amazed at what we are doing. We have already REPAIRED some large bad tempered glass jobs. Some of the windows have been 8'x8' and we COMPLETELY RESURFACED them, REMOVING all the Fabricating Debris - WITHOUT Distortion! On average, one of our guys can resurface about 75-100 sq. ft. per day, at about 30% of replacement cost. We are having excellent results with our patent pending method.

Some other good points about our method.

We dont use any running water!

We dont use any kind of slurry system!

We dont make a mess!

We dont leave any discernible distortion!

We DO save everyone a LOT of money!

I just want people to know there really IS an alternative to replacing BAD TEMPERED GLASS. Feel free to contact me or check the website for more info. Currently we're working at Jennifer Anistons new place in Beverly Hills. Even celebrities houses have Fabrication Debris! ALl the windows have a view of Century City and any distortion is not tolerated. We have an upcoming job in Denver at a 7 story condo with 120+ fabrication debris damaged windows. Also a Hilton in Waikiki with over 900 fab debris windows/doors! Its a real problem and we have the only real solution! Thanks for letting me share this info with you.

Rick Evans