Failed Seals - Contractor opinion differences

I have been reading up on the topics since I decided I was going to tint my sunroom. I have to say there is a lot of good advice here. I have had a few professionals out to give me quotes. One wants to put up 3M for $1300 for about 300 sq ft. The other will put up llumar for a $1000 and Vista for $1290. I have some failed seals and the second guy said he can not put up tint because the glass will definatly break. I called back the first guy and he said the glass will not break, it just won't perform as well as it should. Who is right????? And What are your guys opinions on the different films I mentioned and the prices.

Thanks

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Seal failure will not make a piece of glass more prone to break. If your glass is tempered , you can put just about any film on it. Tempered glass will usually have a stamp in one corner. If you have annealed glass , a film that absorbs too much heat can break the glass. Go with a film with a high metal content, it will be safe and it will block out the most heat.
Llumar and Vista have a CDF adheasive. That adheasive will never fail. NEVER!!
So in 10 or 12 years when the film starts to fail or if a piece gets scratched, it will need to be replaced. The best way to remove CDF films is usually a brick. I would use a film with a DPS adheasive.

I won't comment on price or product... that would be like giving you advice on buying on Nasdaq.

The glass will not break, existing seal failure or not, provided the correct film is used at installation. All participants should be knowledgeable enough on insulated glass units (IG) to avoid breakage issues.

The one jobber is hesitant to install because he may not want to be held liable for any future seal failure claims on those or any of the other units.

As to performing as well... the failed units will not be as efficient at seperating cold air from warm air as they would with seals intact. IG units do little for solar heat gain sealed or not sealed.

Going forward with whomever, just let them know you understand there is little consequence involved with the units having seal failure and that you understand they, the installing firm will not be held liable for those units.

Do keep in mind that seal failure leads to a milky build up inside the unit to the point of an opaque appearance as the sun strikes the unit (this is the moisture intrusion drying up on the inside glass surfaces). I have a few failed units in my home that are very opaque when the sun is shining on them. This is a minor issue for me... the major issue being the cost of replacement I don't have at this ponit in time.

Hope this helps...

Does 3M have DPS adheasive?

The NV I had in my hands yesterday did!

DPS = Detactified Pressure Sensitive.

The alcohol-based detactifier is usually coated onto the liner and releases to the adhesive surface once the liner is removed. It is then necessary to flush away the detactifier to expose the pressure sensitive adhesive's tacky nature.

I cannot understand this reasoning You don't want a product with a no fail adhesive (CDF) but would rather use a product with an adhesive with inherent problems (PS) because it's easier to remove when it fails?

After becoming accustomed to CDF, I have found the only drawback is it it takes more razor blades to remove CDF backed film. Time wise, I have spent just as much time removing a PS adhesive film as I have removing a CDF adhesive film using a razor blade only. It's all in learning how to deal with the challenges presented. Some like the easier softer way.

Vista/lummer are great films. Good adhesive. (no I don't sell the stuff!) Don't know much about the 3m. But I would ask the second dealer about why he is worried about glass breakage... In sunrooms, there can be laminated glass used on the roof sections or when you have glass going right to the floor. If there is lami glass, then i would be very concerned about glass breakage and if the 3m dealer didn't pick up on the lami glass...
Seal failure is a different issue, not realated to glass breakage

CDF chemical adhesive which bonds to the pores in glass (that's why it is a pain in the ass to remove). Whereas DPS is again just sticking to the glass like a standarsd ps (Pressure sensitve). PS is best on curved glass. CDF is definately the best adhesive for flat by far.

I agree, seal failure and glass breakage are unrelated. Window film contributes to glass breakage, but should not effect seals. Sometimes seals fail, we all do.

You can go around and around on CDF v. pressure sensitive adhesives. Eventually all films fail, if not the adhesive, then the metal layer, but you should get 10 to 15 years without problems (peeling, bubbling, turning purple). I personally prefer 3M, but the real key is the company backing the project and the craftsman installing it. Good film in the wrong hands = bad job.

The best advice I ever got on how to buy anything is to find the contractor you trust and buy what they sell.

Hope this helps.

Right on!

Better not visit downunder HeaveyB.
That's one generalisation you shouldn't put on the net as gospel.
Devil

Any time there is automatically some panes with failure, you can't blame any additional failures on tint alone. The glass will not break with either product ,so i am confused with the poor advise you are receiving from both.


My main issue on your install would be further failure and want no liablity.. Typically, if the windows are out of seal failure warranty they should not be warranted by the dealer with glass breakage being the exception.

Metint gave you good solid advise. Ask both dealers for a heat box demo if one has not been offered. They go a long way with helping decide, as well as installed samples and how they appear. Or, put your sample up to a light bulb for a diy heat demo.

I once had an old physisist (like 100) - extremely intellegent. I ususally send out an info pack if the customer is an hour away or so to enable them to become familiar with product. The 3M consulted in person and the only negative he had against Vista was you can't use ammonia while cleaning. WRONG, but they'll say anything.

The physisist used the diy light bulb method to determine which film he prefered on his own to determine his preference. Mine obviously blocked more heat.

Funny thing was , the only reference he called out of the hundreds on my list had experienced one glass breakage. The way we handled the replacement and retinting of glass at no cost sealed the deal. Instant credibilty. He has talked it up with neighbors and been an effective salesman for us!