Questions to ask/be asked when quoting

Hello All,

I've been lurking and trying to learn. Thanks to all for your postings!

I'm a homeowner who has decided to hire out window tinting. I'm doing 3 windows myself as these are bathroom windows that have blinds that are always closed. I've decided to use a professional installer as I'm sure they have access to better films than I can buy at Home Depot Since this is an area that I know nothing about I have the usual concern about getting the right person in for the job. Hence my posting today.

I've searched (and may have used too many key words) but did not find what I was looking for. My questions are as follows:

-What questions should I be asking in order to find out the qualifications of the installer?
-What questions should they be asking me in order to identlfy my needs properly?

I live in North Carolina. Summer heat is high 90's, winter cooling is low twenties at night.
My house faces due east. I have 3 windows on the east side. 5' x 2.5' Double pained NOT Low-E. One requires a ladder for access. There is some shade on just one of these windows. I also have a full glass storm door. Approx. 6' x 3' of double pained NOT low E glass that will require tinting.

The west side has 11 windows, 5' x 2.5', double pained, NOT low E. FULL Sun from ~1:00 to 4:00. I also have two skylights (Velux, low-E) on the West roof, 45 degree angle. These get full direct sun from Noon to about 7 in the summer. None of the windows require ladder access. Obviously, if there is something that can be placed on the skylights, they will require ladder access. The back of my house is mostly window. We have 2" wood blinds that allow us to keep them open a bit without letting direct sunshine enter and we enjoy looking outside and do not want to notice the tint too much if possible.

My goal for tinting is to reduce the thermal load the windows are admitting into the house.
Ideally, I'd like to have some type of amber tint (like my Serengetti and Maui Jim lenses), but our requirements are to have a film that is not dark but rather accents colors and significantly reduces our heat load. My priorities are Color of the tint and accuracy to our needs, quality of job, cost. So, cost is in there (I'll get 5 quotes), but the film choice will be the deciding factor.

Any help on what to ask, as well as identifying how thorough the contractor is by the question he/she asks, would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance, Chris

Sounds like you need Spectrally Selective Films. GeoShield makes a great one as well as Vkool or Hilite. Most companies that install these upper end films are usually very qualified.
I am sure that each MFG. have certified installers in your area that will have lots of references. I doubt you will get 5 bids comparing apples to apples. It's good that you are trying to be informed, however, you can toss the Home Depot Film in the trash. You don't want to use that as a benchmark for the quality of products that should be used. Good luck.

Hey clandi(Chris)..This is your home..Soo,Its the biggest investment of your (our) life..Word of mouth,also any company that is good..Will have custys on file that willl be willing to let you see their home..Maybee a neighbor..Some one..Our industries very eduacated and helpfull.When selling i always have strong refrences real humans..lol..We build relationships..After all word of mouth is a double sided deal..Soo shop smart..And be sure to revisit with a new post..inc pics and everything.

Thanks for the pointers to the films above. And yes, I should have been very clear about the film I bought at Home Depot: It's not the quality I desire but it's OK in the application I intended for it...it's behind curtains and blinds the are never opened as they are in a downstairs master bath. I also concur about apples to apples w/5 installers but I have used Servicemagic in the past with success in getting qualified and recommended contractors for quotes. My point is that I will be speaking to 5 people and the good people do tend to stand out. It's just about being prepared on my end to handle the various inputs.

Go here..

http://www.sunscapeselect.com/
Or
http://www.huperoptikusa.com/

HUPER IS EXPENSIVE, but you get what you pay for,

Hey Banfam,

Yes, I'll repost with what I find. I'm sure I'll be happy.

The reason I'm asking you guys is that most consumers don't really know what they're getting. References do mean a lot, and I will make full use of them, but I'm a numbers type of guy. Should I expect the installer to take measurements (not just window measurements, but things related to heat/UV/angle of the sun/etc) and ask me questions? Or, am I incorrect that there needs to be a lot of science behind what they recommend to me? Should I expect them to bring samples of various shadings and films to show me what is higher quality and lower quality? Don't mean to be a pain, just want to know what when I lay out the $$ I'm doing it with confidence.

Regards, Chris

P.S. Sorry for the long first post, guys. Didn't realize I was rambling until I reread it

Numbers guy?

Ask for a dealer that can model various films on the glass that you have in your home to show you the difference in how your entire window system performs with each film and without. This is different from spec card numbers and fancy heat demonstrations. A numbers dealer should have no problem in accommodating your request.

Hey V Climber, what program do you use for comparitive analysis?

Thanks Vclimber...that's the stuff I'm looking for.

Are there industry references that I can mention when I ask for the analysis? Also, does the tool that you use accept any input for any film, or is it a specific film vendor tool?

Reaserch is fun..Time consuming but educating..You will get all you need.Call around..get some web addres..virtual touring..etc..Its all out their..To bad we cant hold hands on this one..Proof is in the pudding

Thanks. Moreso for Alizee than the links

Based on the lurking I've been doing Huperoptik is one I'd like to see in person.

Where in NC are you located?

I'm outside of Raleigh in the Cary-Apex area. Do you have some recommendations?

Thanks! Chris

For your area i would say Carolina Solar Security.

Chris,
Make sure you ask the installer about thier ilm warranty. Due to popularity of lowE glass units, some film to glass applications may produce an increased risk of TSF or IGU.

Sorry if I've crossed the line with what I'm asking for. I didn't think I was. Simple pointers help us out quite a bit. I've searched for 'modeling window films' but have drawn blanks thus far. I'll keep trying. BUT, if you came to me and said "Hey Chris, looking for the best pre-preg material to use that has a low-medium dialectric constant with minimal affect on signal velocity but not costing too much $$. Can you help? " My options would be to tell you to view material sets from German manufacturers. OR to tell you that Nelco-13 fits your needs, but if you could settle for FR406 with a Dk less than 4.3 you can get what your looking for but at a minimal cost. Which answer would you prefer as your starting point?

Here's the deal! Some drive Fords, others drive Chevys, I prefer 2 dr 57's, post or hardtop, doesn't really matter to me. You asked for opinions and that's what you got.

I didn't really ask for opinions to tell the truth. I was looking for the fundamentals of being a good customer (what info I should provide, what questions should I ask) and for the fundamentals in identifying a good installer by the questions he should ask, or by the data he should bring. I've stayed away from the traps of "which film" and "cost" which are opinion based discussions.

Cheers, Chris

I use 4 different ones for different situations. 2 of them are custom and 2 are DOE approved.




It is not vendor specific.

Ask them for total window performance. All that our industry spec cards tell you is what the film will do on single pane 1/8th inch glass. You probably don't have that on your home... so in order to figure the calcs for your specific glass you need to have someone come out and take a look at what you have then they can run the #'s for you with various films. I'll be honest, there are not a lot of dealers that can accommodate you on this and there will be a few wiseguys that chime in here and bash me for being that specific, but you said that you are a numbers guy and this is simple hard numbers comparison from product to product. As you have seen, I have not mentioned a brand of film yet...

Thanks Vclimber. That's a meaningful start for me and I appreciate your input.

Regards, Chris

The installer should be asking what your needs are and address each one of those needs. What do you want your windows to look like once finished. Dealer should show you at least three samples that fit your needs.


Are they a member of the IWFA? Are the accredited by them and the manufacturer brand they use?

Ask for references from your area. Also addresses so you can view what the windows look like on homes.

Hey vclimber, Thanks for your insight, I've been around the glass industry for over 30 years and I have had access to these programs but have neglected to use them. I see now how they can separate you from the pack.
Thanks again.

i say asked them whatever you want. besides your a consumer ready to educated, and a real professional contractor would not mind to take his/her time to explain or answer all your questions. especially when you are a potential customer. companies listed above a very good but you should try

Geoshield

I do lots of work in your area. Drop me a line if you would like a quote

windoworx@nc.rr.com

Sorry Vclimber...going back through this thread I see that somehow I associated this reply with one of you quotes. The above was meant for Banfam and not you.

Thanks for the help guys. AND, thanks for being civil about my spelling of 'pain' versus 'pane' .

No problem! I usually get something much worse, don't worry about it.

Will do. I'll be contacting you within a few days. Got more reading to do before I start pulling in quotes.

whaddya mean

You better come to this quote ready, willing and able! This might be the back fire of the year. Keep us posted Clandi

Well if you like reading and playing with numbers download this " window 5 "and build your windows with whatever film you want on it ( most major film players are in the data) and see what it says.

it's free and from the government, Imagine that

http://windows.lbl.gov/software/

3M has RE35AMARL which is an amber colored "spectrally selective" film with 35% visible light transmission.

/Mr Burns/ Eeeexxxcccelllent /Mr Burns/

Chris, we travel to N.C. to do film jobs regularly, I can give you a quote if you like. I would love to sell you a Geoshield product, it's great. My website is www.hurricanetint.com .

I don't deal with Huper, just bid against it, but some of the Huper films seem to have an Amber appearance IMO. Another alternative would be Vista V41 Terre. This is a great film for reducing solar gain and I have found it to match Pella's solar bronze exactly. The warranty is also nearly identical to that of Huper and it is made in the USA. There are many manufacturers out there, almost too many if you ask me



Good luck with your film experience! It sounds like you have the right mentality. The film will be the deciding factor, not exclusively price. When you are considering your options from various dealers and manufacturers, make sure you consider the reflectivity of the films. Many of the high end films available will offer significantly more solar heat reduction while keeping the glass non-reflective, and allowing more visible light to transmit.

FB

Thanks guy. I'd like to check out films like Geoshield side by side with the non-exotic material to see the difference for myself. The more I read the more I see the need for visual comparisons and the rates of return (payback period) for the money spent. What's the payback periord for film like Geoshield?

I will be contacting the folks mentioned in this thread for quotes. Thanks for all the input thus far folks.

geoshield

check this link out..call the # and talk to burns...great guy...he can answer any question you have about the film.

the geoshield website has a chart for payback period( If I recall correctly) check it out

Payback info Here it is , click here

and with that info, it fits the bill of 2 other mfg. with a similar film

I love my Geoshield, it has a beautiful , soft ,amber color.

You also want to research "Quality of Construction" there is one patented way to sputter ceramic films that prevents cracking. Guess who can't use that method?

We are giving the person options Vclimb. no need to start bashing other films other than huper..

Thanks, I did see that, but I'm interested in payback which rolls in costs. I'm guessing that in total I need 200 sq/ft. The chart says I'll save $40/month (or $356/yr <-- I assume $40 is peak savings, $356 is average annual factoring in off-peak). Sounds good, but not at, say, 3k installed with an 8 year payback.

Crap...where's the edit button?

The verbage states 1.5 - 2.0 yr payback. I did miss that. How realistic is that?

"According to one of our case studies, the return on investment was 1.5 to 2.5 years - and the savings will be more significant as cooling costs continue to rise. It is the biggest bang for your energy buck on the market today!"

I assume that this was a 1 window, single pane, glass house?

I can mail you some samples and literature

Who did I bash? And did I mention any mfg in this thread? Just giving him another important factor to consider.

15% silver reflective on commercial applications get 1.5-2.5 ROI's, the stuff that everyone is suggesting here won't even come close but it sure will look better on a house.

That chart is way too generic to give you an accurate picture of what you would save.

you crack me up sometimes. you gonna have EVERY consumer check the construction of films?

since you seem to be so concerned with so many things chris...you might wanna check how window film installation is going to affect your warranty on your glass. (if one exists) many glass manufacturers will void any warranty once film is installed. which means you'll want to go with a film that offers a glass manufacturer mirrored warranty. and any film manufacturer that offers that type of warranty is a film that you won't have to be concerned with when it comes to "Quality of Construction."