Low ballers abound - Is it possible to sell against them??

Flat glass situation....

I don't tend to do much marketing in my immediate area due to everyone trying to low ball each other. (Mainly Vista and 3M guys going back and forth) There have been times when I've gone up against them and the people resist due to higher costs.

Now, I'll admit that could be due to my selling skills... but let's just say it's not.

Is it possible to change the prevailing winds and get prices back up to where they really should be?? I have no problem getting what I ask if I go a bit further away, but between gas $$ and drive time, I'd rather stay as local as possible.


-R

That boggles the mind. Vista and 3M Lowballers? 'Round here they are highballers. Typically, they are 1 or 2 dollars per square higher AT LEAST. I had to raise my prices so that I wouldn't feel like the odd man. And yes, you CAN sell against them. 3M is a bit harder, due to the name brand recognition, but it can be done.

I know right? Not all shops, but I know of a couple that do it. One Vista, the others 3M. My first thought was to just charge the same in those areas... With them being closer, less expenses overall. But then that's just going along with the problem, not really doing anything to try and correct it.


-R

Roach,
Yes, you can sell aginst them, and you should sell aginst them.
Don't go in selling a product, go in and sell yourself , sell your knowlege of the product your offering, and set yourself "apart" from the competition, someone once said on here
"If you close 100% of your flat glass bids, your bidding WAY too low".

I know what film lines you have access too, that you can and should be able to compete with EVERYONE of them, w/ a comperable film, and it all comes down to "Why" they should go with you over the low baller.

Hang in there man

My company does sell the higher priced films mentioned previously. However, I will say that for you it is very important to sell yourself and not the product. The first 4 years my company sold Llumar against vista and 3M dealers. We mostly got jobs based on our product knowledge and install experience.

Now being on the other side of things, I wish that other dealers would charge more to close the pricing gap. In our region, $6 to $7 sq. ft. is standard for residential films. There are lots of people offering suntek and llumar for $3.50 to $4.00 a sq. ft. NO REASON TO PRICE SO LOW!!! These same companies could charge $5 sq. ft. and still be lower. It would make you more money and keep the industry prices higher.

There's nothing worse than doing a lot more work to make the same amount of money!

Wouldn't you think that would be a given??? I don't get it...

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. It's cool being able to have peers to bounce things off of, or to just vent.



-R

Same as in my part of the world. Why do people do that? Your prices are right on the money for around here as well. I just dont get it. Roach, I just raised my prices to be competitive with them. Not much changed, except that I get more now for the ones I DO get, and I don't end up looking desperate to the ones i don't get. You may not get more, but you'll be better respected when you aint the low baller. As Dude said, sell yourself!!

It will definately be interesting to see how this season goes with local jobs. I'm going to give it my best shot and see what happens.

The one area I'm having a lot of problems with is pricing commercial jobs. I just don't get it.... and I'm not landing the jobs either.

With those, I know it's not my selling skills, since it's usually phone calls from people in other states asking for a quote. So I go out to the location... take measurements, if anyone happens to be on site talk to them... come back to my office, fax a quote.

What type of follow up are you doing, After you fax the quote ?

Unless its a huge commercial bid, always give them the quote on site after you take the measurements. It is easier for them to say no over the phone and email than in person. Alot easier to close a deal in person and you dont have to use any high pressure sales crap either. As far as those anonamous commercial quotes go. They are pretty much calling a few other guys like you to get quotes as well and usually go with the lowest bid. Not much you can do there because they wil go with the lowest bid even if its $1 lower than the next guys....They just look at the film as if the were looking at a box of nails, cheaper the price, the more money I get to pocket

I usually call the following day to make sure they got the fax. After that, maybe a week later I'll call again to see what the status is. Depending on how that call goes will dictate how I proceed next.


CE - I haven't been able to give the quote onsite since the people who call me are usually in other states and the people onsite are just employees of the company that is currently in the location of the job. (For example, a CVS store... head office is the one requesting services and the quote... )


-R

With commercial jobs, you could lose the bid over .05 per square. I know a guy (salesman) in Knoxville who got so frustrated that he dropped the price by a dollar per square "just to get the job." I did the install, and the woman tod me he was the least expensive by 1.25. He didn't believe me when I told him.
Commercial is different. With Resi, the custy is probably gonna get 2 maybe 3, quotes usually, and they will generally make a decision within a day or two. With commercial, they are gonna get a quote from everybody they can, and they will usually agonize over a decision for a while, before letting anyone know.
If I don't hear from a comm quote for a couple weeks, I'll go by the site and see if it was done. Generally, about half of the jobs I quote don't even get done. Alot of people believe that film is a CHEAP FIX for thier problem. Generally it's a manager who can only authorize so much before getting head office approval.
DON'T get discouraged if you aren't getting the commercial jobs. Find out what your competition is REALLY charging, then go in based on that. It's a numbers game. You'll get your share. Sell YOURSELF and your company. And HAVE insurance. That alone can be a deal maker or breaker for commercial work.

Key is right to a point. Roach and I are basically in the same region,and around here I see alot of the following.
Usually,Companys such as Right Aid , Pay Less and such are run by Property Management Co.'s. They tend to use who they know or have used in the past OR pass it on to one of thier glass contractors or G.C.'s, who in turn use who they know.
The getting different bids thing is "I FEEL" more of a diplomatic thing.."Must get at least three bids" then assign the job.I have seen this,,it's thier "policy".
I get called to just go and measure a job and have no contact to meet on location at times. Same as you. I have it pretty much figured out at that point..Not all the time, but most they are just retrieving the needed bids.
Then there are times I get them faxed to me to price out from purchasing dept. of a glass co. or property management co. etc. and never have to go anywhere. The difference is I have done work for these co.'s before,my insurance cert is on file with tem..etc.. and usually"not always" I get the job.
There has been times where purchasing has told me where I have to be as far as price to get the job!Is this fair? No. Even when I know where I need to be I still explian to them why I need more than what they are looking for. DO NOT SELL YOURSELF SHORT.You are in Buisness to provide a professional service.,not to mention make some green.Do not get discouraged, the more bids you get out there the more your company name gats out,regardless of if you get the job or not!
Eventually you will get picked and then your name will grow.
Plenty of work remains in NJ with new shopping centers going up and the housing developents popping up everywhere.
Not to mention all the redos from jobs done over 15 years ago!!
So keep at it ! Give yourself a chance to get out there and you will get known and used.
As you and I know it is a very cut throat type of biz around here. Just continue to be professional and things will happen.
Also Key is correct when it comes to the "its a numbers game" If you must bid lower , do it , just not TO LOW, leave some space and explain why,sell yourself as Key said.! You'll get the jobs.Sometimes explaining to the customer that you are professional from start to finish will get you the job. Keep our standards higher than the low baller and seperate yourself form that type of dealer.
Quality , Professionalism , and high buisness standards will seperate you.

Thanks for those thoughts KW and GSS... I think I was just looking at commercial jobs the same as resi jobs and it just doesn't work that way. (As far as being asked for a quote - not $$$ wise) Since most of my resi jobs come from referrals, I don't really have other quotes to worry about.. which was the mindset I had with commercial requests as well.


Now I have a better perspective and I'm just going to go with the flow when I get calls for bids and not really stress about it.


-R

Low ballers always abound... Today's scenario:

A guy calls with a security film job, interior and exterior 32 sq feet total. The travel is 20 miles outside of the city and I figure it will take me three hours to get there do the work and move on. This is counting of course on taking my time, possibly having an exterior redo, and printing/completion of paperwork. I tell him it will be XX psf and he says ok put me on the schedule.

Two hours later I miss his call and I told the person standing next to me what the message would say and I almost had it word for word. Basically cancel tomorrow's appointment I found another guy who will do it for less than half your cost.

My competitor is basically going to make 200 bucks less expenses. He just won't go away! As difficult as this business is becoming people continue to lower their prices and work for next to nothing. That job is nothing more than cash flow, he is not making any profit. Its nothing more than beer money. I am almost certain that he will put interior film on the exterior windows and it will fail quickly in Michigan's climate.

Yesterday I was underbid by a dealer that will have to travel 300 miles round trip!!!!?!!?

Too many people just don't care what they are buying anymore. They want to know the cost I've finally learned my lesson. Initial contact bids are for 20% reflective, then I'll work on the upsell once I get my foot in the door. It took me 8 years in this business to learn this. Lowballers go away!

/vent off

Thanks!

- FB

there is one company to the south of me that has been selling film way too cheap. They are offering a high end brand, with samples so I know they aren't switching. Last year I gave an estimate to an elderly couple who had some windows break and the glass replaced and wanted film to ma tch what they had. Well I felt bad for them because the person who originally did the work has gone out of business or what ever, So... So.....I gave them a great price. really great price. around 3.50p sf the low baller even beat that price! I could not belive it!. I now make people give me the measurements over the phone in that area and give a 3 prices HIGH for the high end films, AVErage for most films, low for cheap films then if they like the price I will bring the film for the install! Saves me a whole lot of wasted trips. Some times they say they will call back and do with a name of the film they have samples for, that just makes it easier.

There was another guy north of me selling graffitii film at half my price. the owner of the building said he would give me the job if I met the other guys price (it was a big job) but I looked at him and said "no I am sorry, thats the cheapest I can go you should use the other guy" he bothered me for three days to do the job but still said no......I went back a few weeks later and it looks like a sand storm was going on the day it was filmed by the half price guy!!

Good luck with that!

we need to thank our customers and referals, when doing resi./ comm. jobs show them that we take a little pride in our work. some of use happen to be in a rush to get off the job. but the problem is we need to show the customers the interior and exterior glass, litterly picing out all of the flaws, usually beeing water bubbles, 1/2" or bigger, your best man is looking out for u, while u and the customer are walking the outside your partiner/apprentice is following u in the interior moving room to room and the customer see's first hand that their is pride and professinal work done and their are no prob's going to happen, my bosses sales were 80% sold, our past customers were selling our work for us and bragging about it. new customers were alway's telling us their friends / family's were all referrals. customer satisfaction # 1 with no high pressure. take the extra time to understand the person, show them u care, a cupple will talk your head off. 500$ worth of work is worth 1/2 hr selling job, sometimes a little extra, might be a wonderful day. tuttle PS. itake car of their home thay bring me their car. i tint their car at the office and they see a great job i have done, thay see that we also do homes. thanx dudes

Absolutely. The guys doing the lowballing usually put out mediocre work. Provided your work is superb, it'll speak for itself.