flatglass installers

The main panes were about 35 sq.ft. each, all sealed units 1/4" daul tempered. Well its been about a year since we installed a 50% daul reflective on these windows. All of a sudden this winter 2 thermal breaks. Well these windows are not cheap about $1000 ea. & the manu. only covers up to $500 per unit. What do you do?

Tempered? No way, must be NSI. Did they go at the same time? What did the break look like?

Could be pre-existing knicks insinde the frame. What kind of frame system is it in? Investigate the area. Is there road work, construction, landscaping, etc.? Film is the usual scapegoat but I've seen a few situations where other factors are to blame. For example a window I did cracked and after some detective work I found where screws had been drilled threw the frame and knicked the glass when they boarded up for a hurricane. Be sure though if you redo it to put a disclaimer on it!

One after another 2 weeks apart. Let me know what you think. Thanks for the info. & recommendations. Let me ask would you pay up & over what the manu. covers or leave it up to the customer

Are you sure that is tempered glass?

no way that is tempered glass. It is a single crack. Tempered will basically explode under the film. It will be held together but it will be blown up.

The other problem is that thermal stress fractures never originate near the corners so the high point has to be the origin and it does not look like it projects 1-2" at 90 degrees from the glass edge...


My guess is annealed glass with a clamshell.

tempered!

pull the vinyl back and see if it has already been damaged near the start of the crack. It just takes a minute and could save you $$$$

Clamshell or exterior stress

Not only did all the glass have the tempered etched in the corners I called the glass company to confirm the thickness & quote they had given & yes its all tempered 1/4" sealed units for $1000 ea. I felt the crack on the inside pane its all the way through.

what do you mean clamshell ?

WHAT? That's bull There is no way that is tempered. You need to get the glass company out there to take a look. Maybe Heat Treated, but not tempered.

A chip on the edge of the glass, it kinda looks like a clamshell.

But I doubt it is even HS. It doesn't appear that code would call for HS or Tempered on the run of windows. The lowers should all be tempered but everything above can be annealed. Am I missing something?

Is it possible the outer pane is tempered & inner annealed cause theres definitely "tempered" etched in the glass

Could be I geuss though I doubt it. You may have just uncovered a case of fraud. I bet the glass co. would want to get it taken care of real quick if they build there own units.

I wouldn't fork out a single dime either if I were you. Except maybe retint it for cheap.

Yeah, somethings not right. Tempered doesn't do that. Have another glass company come in to bid on it and see what they say.

I agree with VC and TL about that glass being Highly suspect about being tempered. I have never seen tempered glass crack like that. Are bothe inner AND outer panes marked as tempered?

I want to say I only seen it on the outer pane & its the inner panes that cracked

well, regardless of glass type would manufacturer still cover up to $500 per unit on a 35sq.ft. window of this type if it was an annealed unit ?

You need to look at the terms on your warranty. What brand film did you use?

anyone have a suntek film to glass chart

Actually... I believe I do.

Hang on a minute...

well if its not really temperd like they say it is, i would make the glass company pay for it for marking the glass wrong, thus in turn letting u install the wrong film on it, which caused the break. its not your fault so dont pay a dime. who cares who pays for it, it shouldnt be you b/c that tint was ok to place on "temperd" glass. who ever stamped that glass is to blame.

Symphony 50? 7 With no other factors. You're covered.

not wanting to say they are detadees but if they told you that was tempered they lied or stupid you chose from what i see from the pic's you posted that is double pain plate glass you see that a lot in car lots

thanks V for all the help & input also everyone else whos posted Yes the glass is definitely stamped "Tempered" bottom corners but only on the outside pane now that I recall . So yes I went into this job thinking 1/4 daul tempered, but would this not be a film of choice for an annealed unit of this size?

V can you link me to the chart

ST says yes on their F2G chart. There's probably a chip (clamshell) because even with a "V" shaped shadow (+3) you're at 10 and still ok to use. Something is wrong with the glass (definitely not tempered), the film found it.

Sorry man all I have is a .pdf file. I don't know how to post it.

Suntek FTG CHART

agree as well. has to be annealed.

i cant see with so many responses. what type of film was used?

hopefully these are the only 2 out of about 86 that same size. Hopefully every pane doesn't have defects on the edges. I have a feeling its going to be a long 10 years with this job

im almost thinking its laminated glass man

whys that, wouldn't it say LAMI or something other than Tempered Im confused I think im heading back there tomorrow to check out the glass again.

i mean lami if you throw something at it will create a spider web type thing. but in my experience i've seen lami glass crack just like that. like its making a turn. annealed glass i've never seen cracked so i coudnt say.
have you tried contacting your local rep to get a second opinion? i really dont want you taking our suggestions because we can only say what we see from the pics

Haven't had time to contact the rep as of yet

this job is scaring the hell outa me

If that glass was tempered it would definately look like lil's picture..... chicklets of glass everywhere!

I can see the bottom panes being tempered to meet code.... but it doesn't make sense to use tempered on those larger panes I thought that was the whole idea behind doing the smaller lower glass was to cut glass costs ??

It's not tempered, and usually a crack from thermal shock is erratic and more circular. Stress cracks tend to look more linear.

Is there a resource available to glass or tint folks to help 'identify' cracks in glass ??

Seem like quite a few posibilities are springing up here.. It would be nice to put pics. with descriptions for noobs like myself

I really think that you don't have too much to worry bout man. There is obviously something wrong with the glass if 50 cracked it. I use 15 all the time and haven't had a problem. Now if the glass gets replaced tint it for them for free but don't buy the glass that's pretty ridiculous.

After talking to a glass pro and seeing some myself. On rare occasions the glass company will install double payne glass with tempered on the outside and laminated on the inside! None the less 50% shouldn't have made it crack, unless it was damaged behind the seal. As for the laminated label it could also be behind the seal. They often put rubber blocks under the glass to hold it off the frame which would push the label behind the seal. I would call around and price more glass shops those "flush glaze" frame systems are easy to work with and an expeirienced glass guy could install it pretty quick.

Tempered over Lam may be design spec for Honda dealers, ask if there are some blueprints around.

Theres some crappy glass manufacturers out der. (we see a lot of failures from afgd and guardian , regardless of film or not)

Temp outboard/laminate inboard are normally used in skylites, rare to find it anywhere else .

I've learned that most glass companies only offer warranties for about 5 years (in this area atleast). I wish we could get away with that. I've also heard that some manufacturers don't even use the "Aragon" gas or whatever.

I have been off line for a few weeks and just noticed this post but we just did a job for a contractor that delivered tempered glass to be installed in doors with a custom design film by us. The tempered stamp was on the glass and it was reguler double strength glass instead and 2 panes cracked in transit so we knew the stamp was bullchit. I warned the contractor and he made the glass company redo all glass to tempered units and asked us to break one just to make sure. They obviously made extras. So tell them you'll do what is required by the warranty and they're lucky the had film on them so no one was injured and make sure they know the glass company made a mistake and that glass is dangerous and should all be replaced with tempered glass for safety reasons!

I had the same exact thing happen to me a couple of months ago. Seven 68X68 windows, installed SYDS 35 and had three of them pop on me. They were 750 a piece. All the windows had etched in the corner that they were Tempered and everyone of them cracked in the same exact place, coming out from the side and splitting top to bottom.

I WATCHED ONE OF THEM CRACK BEFORE MY EYES. while I was doing a guys car right after I installed the the large windows, one started cracking while I was watching it. Talk about frustrating.

Suntek covered their part of the warranty because the contractor said they weren't covered under a manufactures warranty (brand new building) go figure . Suntek made the warranty claim very easy and they were awesome to work with.