Interior Pricing

I am located in Maryland and have been in the business for 6 years. The past 5 of those I was working for someone that literally gave the jobs away. Most of the work was done on trade to repair my bosses failing house and cars. We also did a huge amount of wholesale work. For the past year, I have been on my own full time and I am really pushing the custom end of upholstery. The thing Im running into here is that customers are saying my price is to high. Im billing a labor rate of $50 an hr. Im also using a general price guide given to me by a former upholsterer. It breaks down Material Yardage for jobs and Labor hours.

Anyone have any other pricing sheets that they use? Is my labor to high? what are industry standards? Are there any Upholsterers Associations?

Thanks In Advance For The Help
Tim

If they don't think your price is too high...
Then you're not charging enough....

Stick to your guns, only trimmers know what it takes to do upholstery work....

Next time someone says you're too expensive, offer to let them give a try making the sh!t themselves...
After you free their fingers from the feed dogs, they'll be ready to pay what you're asking......

Depending on your location, you're either a bit low, or right in line. I charge $48/hr in Central Illinois. I've been considering upping my rate, but waiting to see how bad unemployment gets around here. I talk to a lot of trimmers in Florida and out west. The average rate is $65 - $80/hr, but of course the cost of living is higher in those parts too.

My basic method of pricing work is Labor + Material costs. I have signs posted all over as well as stated on my Check-in Form, that any estimate given is strictly an estimate and is not guaranteed. ALL work is based on Labor plus material. This is a good way to weed out the tire kickers. If you know someone isn't going to pan out as a customer, just stick to that without wavering. Only if they're serious about the work will they continue to bother you. Everyone else is just tryign to get you to lowball on the work, and then will still complain about the cost.

That is a good starting point. I've had the shop open for 8 years, and pretty much have learned what it takes me to do work (bench seat vs. buckets, vs. door panels, etc). I feel pretty comfortable shooting a price to a customer. BUT, I made a New Year's resolution this year. Instead of eyeballing a job and saying a price (because despite the signage, they still hold you to an estimate), I figure it up. I'll put it on paper the amount of material, and my estimate on hours to do a job (and be honest with the hours). I figure it in front of them, with the calculator. Once that number is punched in, I don't drop it, or amend it or change it. Pass it over to them, and if they are ok with it, you get the job. I've had a few more people than normal decide not to have the work done. But, they will come back later when they realize that the price isn't out of line, and there's not much other choices to go to around here. I found I have to do that because of the material costs. It's easy to sluff over the scrim foam, or the glue, or stainless staples (boat cushions), things like that that cost money.

When quoting a full interior (we have five of them in the shop right now), I don't get that specific. It's too tedious to break down an estimate that detailed for a full job. Especially considering that the customer always changes their mind as you go. They'll see how it's coming together and realize they want more and more to look trick (it always starts out as just a fun driver, but nothing wild, and ends up being a full-on show car). At shows when I'm meeting the public, or in the shop when I get calls, I tell potential customers that an interior goes between $5,000 and $10,000, depending on work to do, substrate repairs needed, and the types of material. Then I remind them that these jobs are strictly Labor + Material. So far it's working out.

ANd you're right, you old boss was working his way to being closed down. You have to have working capital and be able to pay the bills. Doing things in trade is good ONLY if it's a sideline. I have a 58 Caddy in the shop that is getting an interior in exchange for my 68 Dodge Dart getting tricked out on the outside. It's an agreement between me and the body shop that owns the Caddy so we can both go to shows during the season and promote our shops. But, the body shop owner was informed early on (and reminded) that his job is bottom of the barrel and only worked on when there is time. When I have paying customers needing it quick, I don't work on the Caddy. Otherwise, I'm impeding the cashflow and that is NOT what you want in this economy.

Good luck.

I have been pricing out full custom interiors at a starting price of $3000. Most of the people that I talk to are saying they can get it done for half that. I dont know where they are going to for that price. Maybe they ship out of state. I know my ex boss is not seeing them and I dont think the other local shop is getting them either. I honestly feel as though people are sewing them up on home machines themselves down in Baltimore City. Its really frustrating trying to explain to a customer that a set of buckets is gonna run them $1000 to completely recover in whatever they want and its gonna fit and look great, only to have them bulk at the price even though they have $8000 in RIMS on the car. I have had way to many of these people talk to me. TVs everywhere with a huge stereo and bags or drolics and they wanna spent $1300 for a full CUSTOM interior with a dash wrap!!!! WTF people!!!!!! Sorry, Im venting. This just bugs me so much. I put my all into every job only to get walked on. I wish I had better customers that respect what we do as trimmers.

Is there any type of Association that I can join for trimmers? If not, would anyone be interested if I started something? It would be done to help us somewhat set pricing standards, job hours, and such. It would also help us in networking to find materials and maybe even hold seminars for new trimmers looking for advice and tips or older trimmers that just need a little help working on newer technology. Just a thought!! Let me know!!

Thanks
Tim

I feel your pain man...

There is a guy in my neighborhood doing upholstery under an awning in his back yard.
Luckily, he's doin' the type of stuff I'd rather not mess with..

There are so many people loosing their jobs and closing their shops, that they are practically giving work away to keep food on the table...
Some of them are probably getting Katzkin or Roadwire kits done and calling it custom...

There have been at least 2 trim shops close in my area due to this economic crisis...
Several of their employees have been by looking for work..

You may have to drop you prices for a bit, or use a bit less expensive material and take a few shortcuts...
Everyone wants something for nothing, especially it seems, the guys with the 4k worth of wheels and stereos, cause they already shot their wad on all the other crap.
Upholstery, as you know takes a ton of skill to do properly.... They don't realize how time consuming that type of custom work can be....

Good luck, keep us posted....

"I have a quick sewing job for you."
"It's not a big car."
"This should be easy. Just a little sewing."

Ok. So you tell me how it's easier to custom build a seat cover than it is to bolt on an alternator??? It's exactly like Shady said. By the time people have done the mechanical, bodywork and paint, wheels and tires, and got it on the street, they've blown their budget. Add to this that all that work in a lot of cases is done in the owner's garage, with him and a few friends and a case of Bud getting it done. THen they come into a professional shop, at shop rates, and they have a coronary at the prices they are hearing. They envision a set of junkyard seats with a quick cover slapped on, and that is the crux of the custom interior.

When people get whiny and bitch about the cost of an interior, I start rattling off the breakdown: $1,500 - $1,800 for a set of seats (two buckets and the back bench) with armrests and consoles extra; $400-$500 for a carpet set; $$450 - $600 for a headliner especially if it's custom made and fitted; $200-$300 for a door panel (each). THEN, you have kick panels, sail panels, back deck, windlace around the doors, shifter boot, modesty panels under the dash, and it goes on and on and on. I did custom armrests for a 31 Plymouth just a few weeks ago as part of their interior. Those alone should have cost about $125 each, and there were four of them. In the overall scheme of things, I screwed myself and didn't charge nearly what I should have.

It drives me crazy right now. We have a kit car 32 Ford roadster in the shop. The owner bought the car complete, and we immediatley ripped out the garage-built interior. THEN, he sent it to Chicago for lots of mechanical work (to the tune of about $36,000). It came back to us with no fluid in the Tremac 5-speed, and he burnt it up. The brake system has no external fill and can't be accessed for maintenance. But the biggie: there is a metal console in the center holding his GPS. It's not what he had drawn out for them or told them he wanted. It's bulky, and needs totally cut up and changed to make it look right in the car (something we're going to do). I had a body shop look at it and toss out what he would have charged to do it. "Wow. I'd probably have to go $800 for something like that." HA HA, the shop in Chicago charged this guy $2,765 in LABOR to build the freakin thing. Just so we can cut it up and make it right, and have it repainted. I shake my head. They think these rod shop guys are gurus and definitely earn the big bucks. But the upholsterer who has to redo, remake, and hide the crap shouldn't be making anything.

Because it's JUST some sewing, forchrissake.

So why don't you get out of it and get another trade, Russ? Well. I like what I do. I do it pretty well according to my customers. It does provide a living for me and my other two guys who work for me. So far, it's proven to be recession proof because we don't JUST do the high-end project stuff. We'll do anything we can get under the machine. But it still makes you bitch at the hoops you have to jump through to eek out a living. When I first started, I had a lot of customers come in who used to go to another shop in town (that guy does furniture, but sometimes did auto work). They always told me that he was so mean and cross they didin't like working with him, and wanted me to do the work. Well, after nearly 9 years doing it, I see why he is a mean pain in the ass. The customers drive you to that. If you bend over backwards and try to help them out, they'll expect you go ahead and break your back to do it for free. Give an inch, take a mile.

As for those who say they can get the work for half the price.....they're lying. They've not even talked to another shop. They have no idea what they are looking for or should be asking about. THey just want to see if you'll hold to your price. They might have you do it, they might not. Either way, come down too much or they'll walk all over you, and they'll tell your friends to use you because you're cheap. Then you're sunk.

As for an association: I've approached this with another posting site I visit, and also talked with the editor of Auto Trim and Restyling News. It would be a difficult undertaking. You have to make a value-added association to make it worthwhile to shops to join. You have to set up levels (full members which would be the shops doing business, and then associate members which are the suppliers wanting to do business with the shops). It takes an Executive Director at the very least to organize things. To do it properly, you'd need state-level associations feeding into a national Association.

Rather than starting a new association, what is usually recommended by ATRN management is to look into joining SEMA (specialty equipment manufacturers association). They're a good watchdog group, have the annual HUGE trade show, and bring together a lot of aftermarket industry businesses.

I'm also looking into joining the Automotive Parts and Services Asosciation here in Illinois. It's geared towards repair shops, machine shops, body shops, and, yes, trim shops. I think I'd be the only trim/upholstery shop in the association, which would be great. That is a very very useable market for me. It's using the wheels that have already been invented rather than inventing a new one that would eat you alive trying ton get it off the ground.

I finally got time to read one of your entire posts..........................................................................


I agree.... As for the mean bitter old farts.. I see that here too...
That's one of the reasons I bought my first machine...

Here's a link to an upholstery forum, I found a while back...
http://www.carrscorner.com/yabbse/

I think Im gonna look into joining SEMA. I subscribe to ATRN and think it is a great production. It is a good source of information and parts.

I know all about the grumpy old guys who are very hard and cross with customers. I used to work for one of them. His demeanor toward customers was not the greatest. Back in the day they did all of the Ferarris, Lambos, and high end cars you saw in Maryland. His business partner was really well known in those circles. Joe (partner) was a part of the International Ferrari Club. My boss did something one day and, well, they never saw that work again.

I tried to get my boss to expand the business and allow his business partner and I do the custom and restoration jobs while he did the day to day stuff like wholesales. I even offered to train a new employee so he would have a helper. I found another location in our business park. It used to be a competing shop that moved to a larger location. I was even gonna talk to park manager to get us a deal. All I heard was NO!! So here I am on my own. Unfortunately, Joe retired right before I left. He moved away or else Id of asked him to partner in my venture. He told me he was tired of all the B.S. and I cant blame him. 30+ years in the game, he just burned out. I wish he would have stayed. He was fun to work with and a wealth of knowledge. A damn good upholsterer and customizer!!!! JOE...COME BACK!!!! Sorry. I miss him alot.