New UK Tint Laws

Just heard from my main film supplier that the addmendment to the Road Traffic Act has been approved and will become law from the 1st Jan 2004.
They have tidyed up the wording (sounds like liar blair and the EU Constitution !!)
so that it will be easier to nick people. Basically if you don't know (and you should if you are in the UK) the UK law states that the front drop glass must have at least a 70% VLT and the front screen a 75% VLT.
I have also heard that one of the major players in the UK wll not be fitting film to the front drop glass from the 1st Jan.

I am not sure how to play this, whilst I think the law is an Ass (35% film on front drop glass is fine by me) I am concerned about the insurance Implications for the client.
I am also worried about being sued.

So over to you UK guys, give me your thoughts.

TintBob
UK

That was the law anyway I understand I think they have just brushed up on the law to confirm that this VLT includes any application of window film. In Manchester the police have for a few months already been upholding this law. What a pain in the a***. Is it "P" who have stopped fitting to the front driver and passenger.

This is bad news!!!

Looks like EC laws...
But I want to ask: EWFA what Your members payning for? For such fucky laws or they want to buy sometinhg in Spain

this is one thing which is really annoying me,i'm not one to lie down and just go with the flow so i'll argue with any police officer until i'm happy! where i was trained (johnsons uk,southhampton) they told me not to go darker than 35% on the front and as every single motor accessory shop in the uk sell window tint in three darknesses i.e limo,dark smoke and light smoke all of them state that light is legal on the front but the rest are only for rear windows! now i know the law is different everywhere you go but i have 35% on my fronts and 20% on all the rears and at night i can see out fine,my local competitor installs what ever you want!!! the arguement here in the uk is- why is 35% illegal while football stars,pop stars, political vehicles get away with darker film because they need privacy? one rule for them and one for us? not on! they get away with it! who sets the vlt rules that we have to comply with in the uk? why,when you ask the police cant they give you a straight answer on the rules,all they say to me is 'we wouldnt recommend getting your windows tinted' yes but whats the limit? reply-'hmmm,it's a bit of a grey area but we wouldnt recommend blah blah! in the usa they have a limit, the police know it and stick to it,unlike the uk where it's still a 'grey' area! i've asked johnsons about this and never got a reply? they say they are working with the road traffic regulators to sort this out but i cant see it?

i am based in m/c uk and have been pulled for having 35% on my front two windows. after i removed the film and had the vehicle inspected i put the 35% film back on again!! my supplier has told me to install 35% until otherwise told, but i do know that the two front windows should allow between 40%-30% vlt so a 50% film should allow that.
The Dept of Trans (VOSA) were pulling everyone with tint in Stockport, Rusholme and Princess Parkway. They were also checking diesel vehicle's for Red diesel but i think this was just a lame excuse to hide the fact that they wanted to make our lives hell.
The officer who pulled me was an arse sorry to say i only had my car for a couple of days when i got pulled, i had the drivers window open very slightly so when he approached me i went to push the window button to open it fully and by accident i closed it!!! lol straight away i got the third degree "thats not a nice thing to do is it???" he said WTF!! anyway when we got to the testers with the LT equipment i told the officer i tint for a living and he was taking the food out of my kids mouths..lol he went and told the inspector who inturn approached me and asked if i tint vehicles to which i replied " nope i am on the dole" he looked at me while eyeing up my Merc CLK and issued me with a Prohibition Order preventing me from driving my vehicle until i removed the film! anyway the point is they dont know their heads from their arses and im still tinting but only 35% or 50% on the front two windows i wont do darker than that.
well hope everyone has a happy xmas and a great new year lets keep on tinting guys!!

I'd keep the price the same if you end up not putting anything on the fronts, why should you drop the price!

35 on fronts, have done will do, always will

i'm so glad there is other people in the same boat as me! i will still install 35% as well, i'm also putting together a complaint against the roads department,i have an appointment soon with the police department to find out more on the vlt laws. who set them? i also want to find out how many deaths were directly connected to drinking or speeding or tinted windows in the last year,something tells me that tinting will be less than 10 for the whole of the uk?? try and argue my point, also the police are quick at telling us that 35% is too dark,but personally i dont see how??? but what about people that dont have tint but use dark sunglasses? those glasses would measure a lot darker than 35% but they are legal too wear? fiar enough,in court they might say that if it gets dark you can take them off,but where in the law does is state times i.e am or pm?? all it says is that your window should have a vlt of whatever but as i said what about sunglasses? also,us,joe bloggs can be told to remove our tint if they deem it too dark but i know for a fact,people in the limelight i.e football stars,have their windows tinted dark all round so they dont get any bother while out in their cars,hows that ok and they get left with it on? i'm not going to give up on this one!

A real smart operator will take advantage of the situation by fitting the required 70/35 combination and extoll the virtues of you only fitting sanctioned legalised tint over the competition who doesn't.
Taking on the police one on one only helps to stir up a hornet's nest that you'll never will.
Just my 2 cents. Merry Xmas to all.
Devil

ive always known the limit was 70% and i tell my customers this before i even start the job ,i always use 35 on the fronts sometimes 20 as 70 is basicly factory glass ,i personaly rekon we all need to get togeher and try to sort this out ,we should contact every tint shop in the uk and somehow approach the ministry of transport etc to prove that 35 % is ok for the front roll ups ,hell 35 is so light you hardly notice it

i agree sd but how do we go about it???

just give them the when they try to pull ya!!

come on cool,thats not helping! by the way everybody i've just strated putting something together to take this further,only been looking on the net for an hour or so and i've already found a contact at the department of roada and traffic,she was the one who started the update of the laws regarding the vlt limit on tint,i've also found that the head of the traffic police in lothian and borders has his own q=a website and has already been asked about tint limits he says the following- this is whats allowed- windscreen no darker than 25% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! front windows no darker than 30% tint!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and any film on the rears! one out of three aint bad! i printed it out, gonna look good if i get questioned on this at a later date because the head of lothian and borders police doesnt even know the limits thoroughly! this is only the start!

i rekon we need to contact every tint shop in your area and let them know we want to put summat together to approach the government ,we also need tint suppliers input on this ,sun tek,sun guard,llumar,johnsons,3m etc maybe a petition or summat maybe got customers to have a say aswell ,im not sure if it would ever make a difference but weve gotta do summat

the law sucks you cant tint your rollups but you can wear sunglasses ,its the same for bikes you cant have a tinted visor but you can wear sunglasses ,they have had sientific evidence sayin that its safer to ride on a bright day witha tinted visor its even got police backing but the law still stands ,there was also a big case a while back where a company was taken to court because they sold tinted visors even tho they came with a disclaimer saying that they were not road legal and for off road use only ,what im trying to get at is if we are to have any sucsess in getting the laws changed we need asmuch backing as possible ,suppliers,customers,tinters,even accessory shops ,we realy need mot testers etc to give professional advice etc as to vehicle safety with tinted glass come on guys help me out here we need as much support as possible

sorry didnt know i had to be miserable but i have already spoken to two different mot testers and they told me there is no mot guidelines about window film. they both informed me that even if i had limo on my two front windows they would pass my vehicle as roadworthy so wots the police beef???
beats me......im still tinting

so your all telling us that there NOW going to uphold the tint laws that were passed along time ago? and that terrorisim has nothing to do with this right?

the whole time the laws have read 70% vlt on the front two roll ups you've all been putting on 35%?

as in your area of the world and ours I say go for it and try to get the laws passed, I like the glasses thing and the guy who up in the goverment for not know the law and I would carry the law as he says it is with you and if your ever questioned I would pull it out! do bring it to court! to you guys for trying to make a difference!

come on guys thets keep this at the top we need to get this sorted so we can make money legaly

yes legally!

ok for those that dont know heres as the law stands at the moment
tint law
so who has any ideas as to who we contact on having the law revied ,come on u uk boys this is how i feed my kids and i dont fancy a job change at the moment so if any1s got any ideas suggestions for us to persue this subject then dont hesitate to speak up ,we all (uk guys) need to get involved in this if we want to contiue in buisness legaly

hey sd i agree! i received a letter from my suppliers(johnsons) and they are basically telling me to keep to the guide lines and observe the vlt limit! pretty rich considering that when i trained with them i was told to install no darker than 35% on the fronts??? anyway,the letter also states that johnsons uk are working with the GGF to establish a 40% vlt standard(combination of glass and film together) 40% sonds right to me but who are the GGF? anyway you've got my support and when i have time i'll start getting some e mails going to see how johnsons got on!

wish I could understand all thoughs x's and y's no wonder its so tough for you guys to know what the law is!

Hey Guys

I'm pleased that my post has generated some interesting replies, however I am a little concerend.

The problem with this tightening of the law means you and I could be taken to the cleaners, your business, house everything gone because some monkey whose car we/you tinted went out and killed a kid and in his defence he says "I could not see him/her"
Plod accident investigation unit comes along checks the car, finds window film, who filmed it? etc etc etc
It's called corporate manslaughter, yes I know it sounds far fetched but talk to any copper or lawyer and it a possible course of action.
What we need to have is a disclaimer that your customer (and Dealers) sign, the only problem with disclaimers that I have seen so far is that because we know the legal situation a disclaimer does not count.

I think it needs the GGF (Glass & Glazing Federation) and the Professional Window Filming Businesses to get together with a Barrister and have a document drawn up, I am sure it only needs the correct wording to get this right.

Afterall how do you convict somebody of having a 35% VLT on the front drop glass?
Have you seen a light measuring meter that has a calibration certificate?
Do you know of a UK company that can test a light meter and supply a calibration certificate?
If you get caught speeding (Gatso, Gun) or stopped for DD the authorities must supply a certificate to prove the machine is working correctly (If challenged) so why not for window film?

Look Forward to more discussion.

TintBob


PS The Police site that somebody mentioned with the wrong info, it is not really, they are refering to light rejection ie 75% VLT 25% light rejection 70% VLT 30% Light rejection.
Some film companies do it this way, although it would be nice if the Ploice could get it right!!

I have just come across this paper from the GGF. It doesnt support our cause for 35%.

www.solargarduk.com/ GGF%20Report%20C&U%2032%20Sept%202003.pdf

Sorry one too many spaces in the link - lets try again:

www.solargarduk.com/GGF%20Report%20C&U%2032%20Sept%202003.pdf

If people want it done they will get it done by somebody who will take their money

i've just read the report,it pretty much agrees with what we are trying to argue about,pity it recommends the use of no more than 30% on the front sides where as we would prefer the limit to be around the 35 to 40% area to take into account the tint already in the glass. thing is when was this report done? and what was the outcome? did they get anywhere with it? i'll check with the ggf so see if i can find out more!

From my understanding of the report mate especially third paragraph from the bottom that the GGF recommends that no tint be applied forward of the B Post as this may be in breach of the revised regulations.

yes but the way i read it they dont disagree that light to medium tint forward of the b pillar is ok, they say in other countries where the vlt limit on the front has been 70% then reduced to 35 or 40% there has been no change in accidents etc. plus they say they have done tests with cars at night with various degrees of tint and found that only the really dark tint 20% and below caused any sort of problems with seeing out of the front windows! thing that gets me is, the report says that any light or medium tint is ok but they state that the dark or limo tint on the fronts is what is giving us the problems,us pro tinters have known that since day 1.but then they go and recommend a limit of 30% tint! which seems perfect it also allows us to use 35% on the front which is what we have been installing from day one! i would like to know when was this report done and was it taken into account?

by the way dapaa, where are you from?

i've now been in contact with the department of transport (the ones responsible for making the law on tint levels) and have also contacted the ggf the people responsible for the report,i've asked them when was the report done and what was the outcome or the views of the d.o.transport? i'm waiting on a reply from both of them!

I am from Leeds mate. Look forward to hearing the response you receive

I just had my meter certified and calibrated and comes with a sticker to certify it, cause it was reading way to low, cost was 35 bucks and I was told that the meter put out today only read bad from low battery or the electronics inside and most should last 5-6 years with out having to get them certified. I've dropped mine plenty of times so Im probally at fault the last calibration on my unit was done in 1998.

still no reply but then again it is the holidays so i'll keep you all up to date when i hear of anything! by the way dapaa i've read the report again(4th time now!) and when they say they recommend a vlt limit of 30% then that means that in their eyes as long as 30% light is coming in as opposed to the current level of 70% light coming in then if we install 35% even taking into account a couple of percent for the glass we'll still be ok!. a 35% film usually has a vlt of around 34 to 38% so take it as 34 plus 4 ish for the glass it takes the vlt down to 30%! tight but a lot better than it is with the 70% law! i wonder how many e mails i'll have to send before they either change the law or i get the police sent to my door with batons?

Hi, FIMMO!!! REAL GUYZZ DON'T NEED LAWZZZ!!! fock OFF LAWS!!! LET'S DRINK!!!

hi leo! to be honest i wish you were working in our government! our life's would be a lot more simple and i like your attitude about girlzz and drink!!!! by the way where is my free 2004 calendar?

it's on its way that's what leo will tell you! so I'm just saving you some time!

just thought i'd update you uk guys, still haven't heard anything from any of the people i've contacted,fair enough it is the holidays so i'll still wait! got to keep on top of this!

FIMMO! HI IN NEW YEAR!!! HOPE TO MEET YOU THIS YEAR!!!

What are we to do going back to work tommorow ,do i tint front doors or not or does my bussiness go down the pan, i tell customers about the 70% law and they still pick 35% tint who is a at fault us for tinting or customer for picking the tint i have had 35% on my front doors for a year now and had no come backs form the plod ,but a merc up the road from me had a dark tint on front doors,and it has been taken off now

As mentioned by Tint Wizard - What are you u.k guys doing? 35% or no tint past B post? or is it business as usual?

As I saw lot of illegal tinted carZZZ in UK - laws means nothing, or.... We only xplain cutomers that discussion with policeman will be their ....Streetracing is also illegal ....

Well got my first customer today gave him the talk about VLT and the law ,then he got out a copy of REVVS car mag which had bit on window tinting and the LAW,
It says you can get points on your licence and a fine for dark tint or just a fine for say 35% tint ,and just a smack on the face for 50% or above, but he still went for 35% on the front doors

35% on the front for me dam i still got 2 kids to feed and a mortgage to pay ,i always tell customers that any tint we put on the front windows can be deemed illegal as the law states 70%vlt ,up to now ive only had 1 person that has been stopped for tint ,well it was a friend whos accord i tinted in 20% he actualy got stopped for illegal plates and they then started on about the tint ,he wasnt told to remove it tho just told that he could face a fine so ima gunna keep tinting the fronts

Well as I started the post I must confess that we have carried on as normal, 35% on the fronts.
I have spoken to both film companies that we use and they have had toed the company line of not to put film on the front drop glass.

Had a muppit in yesterday who's Vehicle was booked for today, he tried to persuade me to do 20% all round, I showed him several vehicles with 2035 and 1535 film on but he would not have it.
He has "friends" in the local traffic plod and their instructions are still the same that not to bother if you can see the driver.
They also told him that he was unlikly to get nicked if he had darker than 20%!!!!


TintBob

Tinting the sides of the car has been illegal in my state since '92. we try to push people to go with 50% on the side an 35% rear window. if they want it darker there on there own. I even have a wavier that I get people to sign. i doesn't hold up in court but at least if someone gets a ticket its in there mind that they agreed to take there chances.

If someone does come back with a ticket i agree to retint the 2 frnts 70% at a reduced rate. makes them happy that you tried to help them out.

The law hasnt effected business to much but in NJ tint inspections are part of your State saftey inspection done yearly that hurts Windshield strip and dark around back NO FRNT DOORS the state checks that every year

So until that happens dont worry to much

did a pos range rover yesterday the guy comes in n wants limo all around im like i cant i say 35$ on the front doors 5% on the rest he said it wont match ,then asks if i can just sell him the tint to put on the front ,helll no eventuly he settles for 35% on the front 20% in the rear

i enquired with the ggf (glazing and glass federation),my suppliers and a rep. for the department of transport about the recent events on the laws concerning the vlt. only my supplier got back to me (and that took a week!) they said they are going to get back to me! anyway,i'm still supplying 35%on the fronts,and will continue to do so. the police view on it is,if they can see its lighter at the front then you'll be ok unless they are having a bad day! normally you wont get pulled unless your being an idiot!(speeding,etc.) then when they have a word with you about your speed etc.then your tint comes into it, so far not one of my customers have came back due to being stopped. over the xmas holidays i was tailed by the police 3 times! just your usual traffic cop on his rounds,if he was that bothered by the vlt limit on my car he had ample oppertunity to pull me but never did! i know most of the tinters on this forum say stick to the laws,dont go lower but if i was to stop installing 35% on the fronts then i might as well give up tinting!

forgot to add! i have had tint on my cars for just over 10 years now,and i have never been pulled for it! the cars i have now,fiat cinq. sporting and a mr2 both have 35% on the fronts that is the lightest i've ever had on my own cars (my first car that i had tinted was an astra gte with 5% all round! DOH)

I've read all the comments on this topic, but have to admit I'm still worried about the implications of one of my customers killing someone and me gettings sued! like most of u I only apply 35% min to front windows, and get a disclaimer signed, but in the eyes of our so-called law its not worth the paper its written on, if as a professional tinter u know full-well u shouldn't b doing it. I feel we are all 'stick'in our heads in the sand', and hope'in it'll go away. The recent (Jan'04) notice from the GGF state all tinters have an obligation to contact all their previous customers to get t**s removed, including all garages u deal with. Can't help thinking they really mean business this time, and it'll take a tint company like mine to be sued out of existence before the industry starts to act.
Has anyone started to compile a list of tinters in the UK in order to put a case together from the industry about safe application of front 35%? If not I am will to help in doing that....what do people think???