Plotter blows!

So I tried a plotter years ago and hated it. The software sucked, cuts were off and the blade sucked too. I gave up on that. Recently I have been helping a big shop that does high volume and use a plotter for everything they do. I can't remember the software, sorry. So after going through a little training on the plotter and software, relearning...I was excited from what they told and showed me. I was under the assumption that this new stuff works great and it is so precise and cuts perfectly. So I have done about 15 cars now with it. I don't think any of the front doors have lined up. It is even worse than I remember. I like to leave a nice 1/32 edge on doors. I can't do it cuz no matter how I line up the film to the top edge there is always an uneven gap. It is terrible. Not to mention the waste of time. Plus on some films it doesn't cut all the way through, just like I remember before. But for the most part the cutting thing isn't an issue. So does anyone else that uses a plotter have this problem? Are your doors precise. I mean like if you laid the film right to the edge, would it line up perfectly all the around? Cuz right now, this stuff is making me look bad lol. I could hand cut and shrink doors with perfect edges faster than that stupid computer. Sorry, but I had to rant lol. Oh and the best part id the money they spend on this thing. $350 a month for the software?!?!?!? AYFKM? I would tell them to get bent!

I don't know about the accuracy because I don't use plotter cut film(one shop I work with uses all Lulu PP on their autos and only plotter cuts, but I told them if they want me to install for them then I'm handcutting my own film) but as for not cutting all the way through its operator error for not setting up the film correctly. If they use it all the time they should know how much pressure to run with each particular film they have and use. Thicker films need higher pressure, and thinner ones need less. It only takes a few seconds in the computer or plotter(depending on the system) to change the down pressure.

if you don't have a plotter or plotter experience then why would you even bother posting in this thread scotty?


fact is all glass is different. they aren't all gonna line up perfect. i used to use computercut (totally sucked...ended up using it for graphics and vinyl only) and now i use precision cut. i'm more than impressed with precision cut's patterns. use them everyday all day long. the occasional pattern comes up that doesn't line up well but for the most part it's great. if it doesn't line up well on the top edge then slide the pattern up, shave it, then slide it down for the microedge. problem solved.

as far as not cutting the pattern all the way through...it's not necessarily operator error. it could be the sharpness of the blade, the cutting strip, the degree of the blade you're using, the speed. plenty of things can change how it cuts. with my plotter i use the same blade and pressure for 1.5 mil film, 2.0 mil film and 2.8 mil vinyl. but i do have a seperate speed setting for the film. i cut the film at a slower speed than the vinyl. that's what works for me.

I slow down my plotter for alot of materials as well. Just because it can go wide open doesn't mean you need to all the time.

Thanks for the replies from people that ACTUALLY USE A PLOTTER...But thank you once again for your asinine assumptions Scotty. As Blade pointed out, it isn't user error. The machine is set up at different speeds and cuts for different films. They use several different brands and lines and have figured out what is best for each. The problem is that one of the films structure is cross woven. The blade doesn't cut it very well. It works just fine on all other films.

Blade your point about windows not being the same was my whole argument about plotters years ago. Especially on frameless windows. If I double cut them, the other one is usually a little off. Not to mention aftermarket glass. They're always off. And to have to raise the film and shave it then bring it back down for a micro edge is just defeating the whole purpose. Unless you are shaving every window. I am keeping an open mind and hope I get better results but I gotta say, right now, it sucks

i've used plotters in the past and feel much the same as you nc , i used to increase the force a lil when cutting film .say if vinyl setting is 12 for film i would go to 15 ,also i have found the top edges not lining up also and some of it is do to the film flexing in the machine as it's being cut cause you can't run all the rollers down (track marks )

Holla...I dont want to get into the whole "which is faster" bit, but any experienced tinter knows how to bump film forward or backwards when Your cutting, to line up the top perfectly. And, afterall, who do You think makes the initial patterns for a plotter program? Uh...a HUMAN! I know a dude named Bob Holtzman who does it for a living. Hella good guy, and a great pattern cutter. You cant control ALL the variances when it comes to a computer cut. You CAN control Yourself though.

I use a plotter. I use FirstCut from Enpro, and there have only been a handful of patterns that have not worked. I love it. Sometimes it is a pain when you have to reset everything to get it to cut correctly, but when its cutting right its very fast compared to hand cutting. It really saves time for my dealership account, and when I know what vehicle is coming in. If someone wants their two front windows done on a Silverado, I can have the film ready to go before they get there. They can be in and out in 10-15 minutes.

nc, maybe try a different program?

one of the best systems out is film vinyl designs. Check it out on line. Patterns nearly all perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you work for them?

Well I do have SOME experience as I stated that one of my shops uses a plotter and I don't like their cuts. Seems to be the same issue your having is it not

based on his name I think so

I'd like to try another program but it is not my machine. They like the results so I am sure it will stay that way. I think it is called Digitint?? Anyway, I agree that it would be a nice piece of equipment to have for when you know a certain car is coming in, maybe even for dealer work. I do alot of dealer work and it really didn;t help me in the past even though I was doing the same car over and over. It would be nice, if there weren't all these problems. Not to mention the cost on top of it. For something you can do for free with about 7 minutes of cutting. Sorry, I'll stick with my trusty hand and olfa, unless I get to see one of the programs you guys have and love.

I don't do nearly enough business to justify $3k+ on something I can do for free.

Well, if you had a dealership account, or multiple accounts, it would be worth the money. A plotter does save you time, period. I used to think the same way the "hand cutters" think about plotters until I started using one. If you can find a good program, with reliable patterns, it will make installs so much easier and faster. I think anyone on this site who uses a plotter would agree. In nc's case, he has yet to use a program that works well, and I understand that. There are good programs out there that make a plotter useful.

I have 3 dealer accounts and still a plotter isn't useful. I'm not that pressed for time since I'm only a part timer so I don't have a full schedule every day. I understand for some their necessary, but just like peel boards I don't have a need and don't like them.

Why refuse to even try and use the plotter, being trained on how to use it will add to your toolbelt.

Anyhow, in regards to patterns... I've seen shops using both Computer Cut and Precision Cut and I have seen so so edges from both programs and that should be expected. That is why many shops will cut the pattern and then lay it on the outside of the rollup and hand cut the top edge since that is the one that seems to have most variance and the most noticable. It really depends on the shop, some places are fine with gaps at the top, if you are the shaved edge kinda guy you aren't going to like what a plotter offers for top edges.

I have seen people drive a long way for a computer cut installation, it is not only a way to be more efficient it is a sales tool you can use to your advantage against competitors. People like the idea behind no cutting on the car. At least 1/3 of its value is in this alone, always ignored on here since as installers we have seen consistent work from the old way but for consumers this just sounds appealing.

Oh its also nice to be able to track patterns cut, you can keep your employees in check when it comes to sidework or freebies.

Then they arent giving you enough work. And your mobile. I wouldnt want to haul around a plotter unless I had a van. If you were doing every car on the lot, a plotter is useful...but what do you know anyway.

Again, you are mobile...you dont know how useful peel boards are. Peeling off the car is just asking for contamination. I did it that way for years.

we use one here and it works perectly....cuts all the time are precise....and the top of doors line up perfectly.....I dont know how much it is a month thou....all i can say is maybe working with one of the guys that is close to you that the plotter works...and is willing to show you all the tricks....jeff is teaching me the plotter and how to use it....I find it is so simple..better than cutting the tint on the window...every now and then we get a screwed up one and have to recut it but that doesnt happen very often and then its the person who sent in the measurements not the plotter......so keep at it and hey if you get frogy ask one of the other tinters near you to hold a teaching day for ya........

I wouldn't haul it around with me I would probably leave it at my house or something. I just still have a knack for messing up a roll down every 4-5 cars

I swear my acura dealer tints every car they sell, but they don't just go here do 5 today, its one today, one on saturday. They all get Supreme 40, so I don't get why they don't just do them in bulk

Plotter is great for apprentice tinters and shop helpers to be productive while you are on the phone or selling customers. This "time" adds up in a day.

Yeah I agree they might be good for apprentice guys and stuff like that. I won;t even say they're good for dealer tinters that tint every car on the lot. I do that now and back in the day before our economy went third world, we did 75 cars a week that were the same car. I figured a plotter would make things so easy. Biggest waste ever. With two people we would pull two cars in. Both of us cut 3 sets of doors on each car, so 6 cars were cut in about 10 minutes. Then tag team the cars and do each in 30 minutes. The plotter, someone had to sit in front of then ween the excess off. Such a waste. IT is a good selling tool because people are gullible and buy into it. I bet I could sell it better though that our extensively trained tinter will hand cut the film specifically to your glass which has variations from car to car. Bentley's are considered some of the finest vehicles in the world. Their interiors are hand made. Anyway, I don't knock anyone for using them. Matter of fact, it seems like some of you have some nice programs. I wish we had that!

I use computercut patterns every day except for the occasional pattern that i know from experience of using the program doesn't work. Patterns 99% fit great.

Not to say that a tinter should just rely on computercut patterns though, you should know how to handcut also, im workin on training myself on that part, BG and quarter windows and stuff are easy but its the roll downs im having trouble with but learning on with spare film and spare time, never been taught so gotta learn it for myself.

when people ask why I don't use a plotter I say because every window is different and varies even on the same car, so I custom cut everything to fit their exact vehicle. Most people are impressed, and even another shop that called and wanted me to install for them was like no way you hand cut everything? I'm like yeah it was how I was taught its not a big deal

tintpro- just keep practicing you'll get it eventually. Once you learn how to read the window it makes it a lot easier. Work on doing the same technique on every window to make your life easier. Like how I top cut, roll up, cut back, shift back 1/4", cut bottom, trim. Figure out a way that works for you, and it'll save you time not having to think about every move you make cutting

i can get the top to line up perfect thats not hard for me and the bottom is easy cause i just leave the film a 1/4" from the bottom with the factory edge before i roll it down to do the top, i make sure to hold the film away from the bottom while rolling down to keep it from messin up or course... The problem i have is how to cut the sides, i just cant figure it out, and the other tinter wont take time to show me...

i mean i leave it a 1/4" below the gasket... getting late not paying attention to what i type, sorry

how you cut the sides all depends on the window. assuming its 90% of auto windows that don't shift, this is how I do it.

I cut the big side(right or left) first. One click, or whatever the smallest part is of the knife sticking out. I'm a rightie remember. I use my left index finger and right middle finger bent under to push the film into the crease of the window/gasket/side. Then use the knife angled into the corner and run it down, either along the plastic, or where the rubber meets the glass on a lot of GM's. Tear off the cut part real quick to not crease the corners. Then grab that side and shift 1/4"-3/8" to the left or right(depending on side of car) and do the same thing for the short side. Afterwards I cut the bottom, then peel it off and go around and trim the corners. The extra little bit will help keep you from having light gaps, and it'll line up jussstttt right.

I cut the bottom last usually because every now and then you don't get the right angle on your top cut and F it all up so that way I can pull it up and redo it.

fa shoooo

Tintpro...I kinda do the same as Scotty on my roll ups. I use 18 or 20 inch rolls for sides so there is a straight edge every time. I use the straight edge for my bottom so that cut is done. All doors are different, but take a look at the door first and see how the rubbers look. If the sides are tight or real big, how much room you have to play with. But for the most part if it looks straight up. I do this...I double cut or quadruple cut everything, depending on how many I have to do. Line the straight edges up on the bottom. Then I usually cut the mirror side and then slide it over just a bit, maybe 1/4 inch. Then cut the back side. Roll down cut the top and you're done. Some cars you need to cut both sides big. You will learn which cars need what in time. One thing I have noticed about the computer cut stuff so far is that the sides have all been cut big which is nice.

Thanks guys ill see what i can do and let yall know how it goes..

This forum is like a family Thanks!

most people treat it like family.

Actually, thats not correct. Remember, a plotter will cut ALL windows. You are cutting out roll ups. Having a plotter cut a bg saves the most time. Everyone is different, but having a plotter has enabled me to do more cars in a day. In the morning (if at the dealership) I would cut out the patterns. It takes about 10 minutes to cut out 8-10 cars. Weeding the patterns takes 10 seconds. I dont weed them until im about to use them. The only thing that slows me down on the plotter, is changing the roll for a darker vlt on the bg's. But cutting 10 bg's would take 3-4 minutes. I am not gullible for buying it. I used to think the same way you think now. I got lucky and bought a great system. Like you said, I dont care if someone has a distaste for plotters...it has worked for me.

whatever makes anyone happy is all cool. different strokes for different folks

No sh!t...

I never get the "if I did 10 of the same car it would be justified" response...

You could double cut patterns all day long since its the same car, it is when it is a variety that you get more out of it since every pattern is different and you can't double/triple cut.

If you do 10 cars a day for an average price a machine is good. If you can get top dollars and only do 3-4 its better to hand cut. You get tighter edges hand cutting and less dirt sucking up on some edges because template too big. . people dont get cutting machines for better quality work they get it to pump out more cars cheaper .

I do maybe 4 cars a day when I'm busy, but have higher quality so I like handcutting

I have tinted full time for 22-23 years and recently started working at one of our other locations that has a plotter. I ran a vinyl sign machine and my own shop for about 8 years, so I know the machine and software. Problem is that 80% of the roll up cuts don't fit. And any rear glass that has a pop out cutout or defroster cutout doesn't line up.

I can ALWAYS cut it faster and just as nice by hand. Only way I justify using it is if I get a run of 10 City vehicles and can change the cuts to fit right and run them all at once. I feel that it is made for beginner tinters that can't freehand cut worth a crap, but then it is still more work for them I feel.

Otherwise, the plotter needs to go to the curb!!

what software are you using jake?

I was going to start a thread on this subject but decided to just post it here.

After around 25 years I finally had my first experience with a plotter. I have no idea what the software is. I only installed the film. I haven't learned the machine yet.

On the first car I did the back window. The brake light cutout did not line up at all. It was off by about an inch.

The next two cars I did the windshield and some side windows. I still had to cut out the windshields myself. The rolldowns fit pretty good. One was cut a little too wide for my liking as the gaskets were pretty tight on the sides.

The next car, I think it was an Acura TL, had to be cut by hand because the pattern was not available.

I did another windshield on a Lexus SUV. The other guy had to hand cut the two rolldowns because the plotter would not cut Huper ceramic.

The last car we did was a Vibe. I wanted to see how it did on the back window but I got tired of waiting for the film to be cut so I started throwing on the sides. The other guy had some trouble fitting it, but it came out good. The sides were no problem.

I'd say the plotter didn't really save me any time on back windows. It did save me some work on the sides. It slowed me down a little on the sides just because I'm used to doing it my way. When I cut I know how it's going to fit, plus I don't have to think about which piece goes on what window. By the end of the day I was getting used to it.

I agree that it's good for beginners. I also think it saves a little work for us experienced guys. I don't think it's any quicker though.

So it has been a month or so since I started using the plotter. I don't hate it as much as I did in the beginning. We have messed with it and got it to cut better so weeding the film has been more efficient. I like that it is someone elses machine and I am just installing, my name isn't on anything so I don't care. So the fact that every roll up I do(nearly) is off doesn't bother me anymore. I feel like a lot of us on here have the same expectations of our tint jobs. We all like to get super close edges if not shave and clean looking jobs. I have come to find that 90% of the people that come into this shop have really no idea about tint at all. So as long as it looks good and doesn't have hair and dirt everywhere, they are happy. So I try to line the edges up the best way they will fit and if it doesn't look perfect, oh well. The sales people can deal with it if they come back. If I hand cut everything, it would be faster, fit perfectly, save film and money as well as not infuriate me.

The plotter has its place. This shop is willing to pay for it because they have good tinters who can make it work. They don't care what we think about it or the crap film they use. If it was my shop. I wouldn't waste my time or money. Instead of the way these guys sell their plotter as this incredible piece of technology that computer cuts to your car blah blah blah. My sales pitch would be to bash the plotter and sell the fact that hand cut(handmade) is always better. Custom fit....

Thats my sales pitch

Do both sales approaches, have both options..but be PAID for hand craft..cater to BOTH markets



(see my more recent post )


http://www.tintdude.com/forum/index.php?sh...c=52835&hl=

I read that one TW, very good approach

Just looked in Computer Cut, you can do an entire Dodge Charger with just over 8' of film and a BMW 750 with just over 10' of film.

I know in this industry change is evil, especially when a machine is questioning your ability to cut something but look at it from a business stand point and an installer stand point.

Saves time (I know you can argue this one till our finger are stubs from typing but it does) saves on olfa blades, saves material, customers love to hear a computer is cutting, keeps control of what is cut so you have a way to keep an eye on installers, SUNSTRIPS, vinyl graphics for the upsell, decorative designs for FG or auto.

I dont care how good you are you cannot pull this off as quick as a plotter by hand. efficiency at its finest...

As quickly, no, but on a 750, would you rather have a nice even tight gap, or a median cut by a computer?

I think you're missing the point on the speed part. It isn't just the cutting. The plotter may very well cut it faster even after loading the film. However, after this process you have to cut individual pieces out then shrink the doors and back window. Then put them back on the cutting board and weed the film off and turn them around to be ready to peel. That is the entire process of cutting to me. I can hand cut and shrink faster than the plotter in this way. I can aleviate some steps. Some people may do extra steps hen hand cutting. So for me the cutting process in its entirety is faster.

There are tricks to that, most new cars edges are money but there are ways around iffy edges. Have you ever used a plotter for a few weeks?

and what about film, 10' to do a 760 I dont think so...

maybe i'm bigtime old school...but the only doors i preshrink are new vettes, beetles, and 3000 GTs (and most of the 3000GT toilets are at your local junkyard anyway )

I'm Old School to, and I shrink EVERY side window. My main reason for this is to completely eliminate the chance of an outside burnt gasket from heating the fingers out. I've done it...we've all done it.