4 mil armorcoat installed correctly?

Just had Armorcoat 4 mil SS-35 installed on my home for security, safety, glare reduction and energy efficiency. My question is if it was installed correctly for it's security advantage if it was done as Daylight Installation. Per Armorcoat's website:

A common method for installing solar and safety window film. Window film is precut slightly larger than the framed glass pane, then trimmed up to 1/8 inch of the glass edge (http://www.armorcoatfilms.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/Products.Daylight_Install/Products-Daylight_Install.htm).

Since there is no overlap to the metal frame on the windows this seems to leave a chink in the armor (pun intended). Won't this just allow the window to hold together but still be pushed in either from break in or hurricane? It seems that 4 mil doesn't warrant mechanical attachment but should my film have at least received a wet glaze attachment method or do install ever include an overlap of the film to part of the window frame?

What is the most proper method of installing 4 mil security film in a residence?

Thanks

What did your installer suggest ??

He suggested the Armorcoat 4 mil over Huper even though he was an authorized Huper dealer. He said they don't do 8 mil on residential homes because they have to put so much pressure on the glass during install they may break them. He didn't suggest anything on the different installs.

There are several different ways to answer your question. You need to give us more info. What did you ask for, why did you ask for it, what are you trying to achieve, what type of window structure do you have, are you willing to look at 995 sealant for the rest of your life, what kind of security were you looking for

No form of attachment at all?

I stated I wanted to reduce heat and glare but also wanted a security film for security for my family. I stated I wanted both extra security against intrusion and hurricane winds. I emphasized that I had received 4 quotes from others that didn't listen to my wants and kept quoting me for 2 mil film. Those other guys kept stating it would hold the window together if it broke. I told them I understood it added some protection against injury but I wanted film that was sold as being security film. I'm not too close to the coast so I was okay with 4 mil. I have single-hung windows with aluminum/metal frames. Sealant would not have bothered me. I just don't see how security film can be installed this way and still retain it's "security" advantage.

Were there any discussions related to a wet glaze and price for that versus without?

Just trying to make sense why if you wanted it they didn't want to offer it, unless it was related to an issue with price etc...

Was the Huper already on the windows or did he install both?

He should have offered the wet sealant and frankly his story about 8 ML is nonsense. The cost to wet seal is fairly inexpensive. Call this guy and have him caulk (if he knows how!)

No there were not any discussions related to wet glaze but he never said anything about install options either. He's the pro so I feel he should give me the different options. Price wasn't an issue. I just don't see how effective this will be for the security aspect as currently installed and I feel I would have done better to just get a regular tint, non-security film, with greater overall total solar energy rejected. Not only that but then it would quality for the energy tax credit.

I got the contact to the installer via a request from Huper's website. I was originally interested in Huper film but this guy pushed the armorcoat based on my request for security. I guess also probably since Huper may not have a 4 mil security and start at 7 or 8 mil.

So am I correct in my assumption that the security aspect of the film is greatly reduced as installed being as all it will probably do is keep the glass together and just be pushed in by an attempted break-in or a flying object during a hurricane?

If you requested film for any type of hurricane "protection", the installer should have suggested an 8 mil film, with an attachment system. Any security film for "security" purpose should have an attachment system. If someone were to break the window without the attachment, yes you can easily pry right through the film. As was posted before, call the installer, and request attachment, if they know how...

Ok I see, I read it wrong. I thought he may have installed the security film over another film. As mentioned before, you are correct about the attachment system.

you people need to read window film magazine cause there is nothing in the window tint industry they is hurricane they state even in florida you will get sued by the states attorny off for even selling film that you say is for hurricane .

its a felony cause everything in florida must pass the dade county code to be hurricane product. they say window film doesn't big artical in the window film magazine like 2 or 3 pages find it in one of this years issue between jan to july i can't remeber which one .

Okay, thanks. I know if any burglar wants to get in bad enough, they can. I got the security film knowing it's more of a deterrent. Will 4 mil also provide some protection from hurricane winds or is 8 mil the minimum for that? I really did want the hurricane protection but I guess I'll be okay with the 4 mil providing a little more protection than I had without it. I'm probably over 70 miles away from Galveston, TX as I'm right outside the Houston city limits in Cypress, TX. I'm just a little irritated that it was falsely conveyed to me that 8 mil was not possible on my home. I had some other installer that told me the same thing. That installer only carried Madico film (not Sunscape so may only entry level film) and said it was due to the frames my windows had. I mentioned this to the guy that did the install and he said sure you can install it on you windows and that the other guy was wrong. How much more an average would the 8 mil have cost than a 4 mil? I think the total square footage of glass done in my home was about 230 and I paid just under $1000 total. I met with a total of 5 different tint companies that carried different brands (3M, Panorama, Madico, Madico Sunscape & Ceramic, and finally the Huper/Armorcoat guy that did my home). I'm confused why most these guys kept pushing products that didn't meeting my security/hurricane requests. The only other guy that did gave me a quote on both regular 3M night Vision 25 and their 400 security line. I just didn't really like the 3M film and I didn't they rep didn't give me specific information on the security film other than just giving me an installed price.

I've contacted the installer and left a message with the receptionist.

I also wanted to say thanks to to all the help on this board.

I'm not in the tint industry so I don't know about that magazine. I don't expect any film to make my home hurricane proof just like I don't expect it to make it burglary proof. I just want to increase the safety for my family and home. I think if tint reps emphasize that it is not hurricane proof but does provide some protection, then there is no reason to get sued for mis-informing a homeowner. I would imagine the magazine article is bringing to light that the tint reps need to understand that the film cannot be sold as making a home hurricane proof.

I doubt the price you paid will last long but you got a pretty good deal for 230 sf of S/S film regardless of which brand. I won't do standard film for that price

Yeah, no complaints on price. He beat all others on 2 mil film.

That should have been a red flag right there, you get what you pay for.

If you see Fred, I put protection in quotes, assuming the original installer/ estimator used hurricane protection as a selling point. How ever I don't believe it is against the law yet in FL. They are working on making anyone installing security film state certified, and trying to make the wording of "hurricane protection", illegal. You are right anything in FL that is advertised as hurricane protection has to pass Miami Dade code, and no film does, but there a plenty here in Florida that advertise hurricane protection, my old employer being one of the biggest. It is unethical, and eventually it will catch up to them, but for now thats what it is...
ICRNK, good luck at least getting an attachment going, definetly recommended for any kind of security purposes...

Agreed

We have installed 8mil on six homes this year with absolutely no problems

I thought some films passed second story but not first floor for the Dade code... Again your talkin to a cali dude who reads that window film article on the crapper.

No as far as I know, and I could be wrong, I've been out of a shop now for a month or so, but nothing has passed Dade code...

he just didn't want to mess with the thicker film. nothing to do with your windows.

Looks like you got what you paid for... Now it's a matter of paying for some caulk

Some manny's do claim on their web site's that they have passed the test. However If you read the test results and pay particular attention to the test panel construction, method of attacthment, glass thickness etc. you will find that very few IF any (that I have seen) residential homes will meet the criteria used in the tests. AS far as wet glazing ( for resi applications anyway )? if you meet your particular manny's specs for material, size of bead' type of frame etc. there is not enough frame to apply the specified size bead and the window frames in most homes are wood or vinyl which were not tested so the test results don't apply anyway.

Boils down to an ethics thing for the dealer IMHO, use the test results as a selling point or INFORM the customer that yes " the films I carry have passed the tests but your windows and home's construction do not meet the test criteria"

That's not correct! Attachment systems is a MUST for tempered glass, not for normal glass though. It does add some strength along the edge, but you CANNOT “easily pry right through the film” without it.

Well, again we see another consumer who did no research for an important issue. Before having your film installed, you should have researched it. Online, here, through manufacturers website or by contacting them. Since you did none of this before hand, now you have what you have.

So, now here is some information after the fact. Your 4 mil purchase will HELP protect against breakin and storm winds. With it being regular annealed glass, upon an attempted breakin, the glass will crack in lines, not shatter as tempered would. this will allow the film(as ong as the adhesive is cured and attached properly) to hold the broken pieces togoether for a bit. However, once broken, the break lines will have sharp edges that can begin to work into the film, allowing for a tear. This would take some time, thereby possibly deterring a thief. Without the attachement (Dow 995) all edges would have to pull from the frame which would take an intruder a bit of work. The only way the glass could just easily 'fall in' was if it cracked around the edges at the frame. This is pretty much impossible. With the attachement, the FILM is held to the frame, thus, keeping it from fallong in. HOWEVER, a big caveat comes along here, if your windows are aesy cleaning tilt ins, there is not much at the edged of the casing to hold it in the frame, this creates the weak point in the issue since most manufacturers use plastic clips to attach the casing in the frame (top slide ins for easy tilt in). Anyhting you put on does help, but it is not a cure-all.

Now, as for the hurricane protection, I would tell any and all consumers this: If you film your windows with anything and are still fool enough to stand in front of them to 'see the storm', enjoy your funeral. Film attachemnt is there to help reduce intrusion during hurricane force winds. Yes, it will probably stop the first thing that comes at it, but, as with safety glass, once it is compromised, all bets are off. One the glass is broken (film and safety glazing), a weak point is created, allowing further pressure at that point to break through. Testing data is usually shown for ONE hit, not mutiple. Safety film and safety glass is there to protect from a higher pressure hit, thus allowing you to get away from the window before more hits and causes damage and injury. An attachement system is only as strong as the frame it attaches to. If youe windows are casement or double hung, they are NOT bolted to the framework of the house, but lightly mounted into the actual frame of the window. This is the weak point of the equation.Safety film is strongest when mounted on glass that is mounted into strong STEEL frames that are bolted into the framework of a building (usually concrete or brick). Most homes are wood frame construction with vinyl or wood frame windows. The windows are usually nailed to the surface of the house, with no screws or bolts running into the framework of the house. If you lookat most testing video, you see that when a 2x4 hits the window, it shatters, thereby compromising the structural intergrity of the whol application. Put in simple terms, great for the first hit, but then, all bets are off. I have yet to see any tests that show repeated hits.

This truth be known, you have to realize that your film installation is good for slowing down intrusion by crooks and, in the event of a hurricane, allowing you the opportunity to get away from the area safely. However, I would caution you to not get too brave. 4 mil will not save you if you are fool enough to stand there as a storm whips debris around.

This is my opinion on this, lets see what others have to say.

A shattered window without an attachment system can easily be pried from any side of the frame. Once the glass is broken there is an immediate weak spot(s). Stick any kind of tool in the frame and you can manipulate the broken glass to go up, down, left, right, creating much easier access to pull or push the rest of the glass in/ out...

This is correct to a certain degree. Should not the tint professional and installer educate the consumer on all aspects of the product they are selling as well as the options in install. If the consumer must do the research, why hire someone to it. I hired someone because I wanted the tint installed correctly. I know there is a technique as well as knowledge to tints and install. I researched the different films brands and reviewed some of the specs in glare reduction, energy rejection and so fourth. I decided on the a security film even though others had better specs on the basis that I was gaining some security with this film. I think it's sad if consumers are expected to also research the install methods and have to tell the professional how the film should be installed to take greater advantage of one of that film's selling points.

Did you consult multiple installers or just the one?

5 different installers

Bottom line is everything should have been explained to you. It IS our job to educate the consumer, according to their wants. It sounds you were taken for one, all you can do now is call and ask for an attachment..Good Luck man, I'm sorry you weren't informed properly, and don't have a sour taste, there are plenty of great installers, that would've gone out of their way to help out the end consumer, you may have not gotten one of them

You do have more protection now than you did before the 4 mill was applied. As I said before there are many variables that pertain to your situation. The good news is that the 995 can be installed at anytime, the extra security that you gain from it is tough to estimate without all the pertnant info. IE glass type, frame type ammt of 995 inst etc. My view of this is that you were given a very fair price for the film and if it makes you feel better to have the attachment on there than do it. If the dealer did not offer it to you maybee there was a reason for it, we only have one side of the story

I had typed up a long response to your statement. I will just responsd as follows.

You had decided on what film you wanted, chose the installer by price point(lowball), even though they steered you to another product and had the film installed. You get what you pay for in this world and so you did. No one is telling you that you should have researched installation methods, however, there is plenty of free info on the net about Sec. films AND attachment systems. Not researching the product completely and relying on a salesman, and a lowballer at that, for this info is the real story here.

In our society today, I see too many who state that ' the salesman never told me this' or 'It's someone elses fault'. Learn from this one and move on. If you are not in a high crime area or right near the hurricane area, what you have is sufficient. Put in an alarm if you are that nervouse of intruders. If you chose to apply the Dow, remember, it is only as strong as the frame it attaches to. If there is little to attach to or not really strong framework, it is a wast of money since it will not hold up. Also athsetically, it is a rather large bead of caulk all the way around the window (up to 1 inch in each direction) that many would find not very attractive

Good luck.
'

I think you imagine that without an attachment, the 4 mil film and glass will just fall out of the frame very easily but that isn't the case. The glass is annealed so the shards will hold the glass and film together. It will take a decent amount of damage for the window to just fall out. In real life situations most thieves would just walk away from that after a minute or two because of the obvious scene it would be making.

I sounds like I did get a good price so no complaint there. Price was not main reason for choosing the installer. He was the only guy other than the 3M dealer that offerred a security film; what I asked for via email and phone. I never tried to get him to give me a low price as I was fine paying a fair price for a professional install. I only knew of a price range based on my other quotes and the one I received seem to fall inline with the others. I'm not in a high crime area but mearly being proactive and making my home less desireable to a burglar. I understand it's better to have several defenses. My main complaint here is that I was specific in what I was wanting and don't feel like I got the most out of my purchase. The installer seemed like a nice individual and said he has been in the business 25 years. I may just leave it as is but will let them know I'm not 100% satisfied.

Also, I again want to say thanks for all the info and I know I have some additional protection now. Also, I know there are quality installers out there and I don't think they're all bad. I actually had someone I wanted to recommend as their interested in this. Anyone know any honest/excellent installers in the Houston, TX area?

you got a good price as in a cheap price. as has been stated several times in this thread, for a nice film, that price is way low. For a similar 4mil film, I would charge over 2.5 times what you paid for the same footage.

this industry truly is a get what you pay for industry, and for just 4 mil hung you did get a "good price" if you want to look at cheap as being good

Yes I know of a quality installer in Houston. Send me a mail.

I know of a couple of "medioker" installers in Austin but they are always cold and wanting me to come back to bed.

i just applied prestige 70 ultra to the state attorneys house in orlando. and they wanted it for hurricane protection. no attachment system was applied cuz they have wood frames. i get the question all the time, "how come theres a gap and will the window just push out in one piece"..... the security film is just a deterrant! no you cant stand in front of the window while a cat 5 blows thru!!!!!!!!!! nor is it bullet proof. in order for 995 to be applied you need to first have a window frame that is deep enough and metal to hold a 3/8in bead on glass and a 3/8in bead on frame. most residential windows have a plastic trim on aluminum frame type window, with take apart plastic frame grid french doors(yes they still count as french pains!!!!)... so that leaves the sliders, and new construction is using the flat framed doors which leaves you running a whopping 1/4in bead...... so with all that what are we supposed to do about windows that dont have the frame to support wet glaze requirements??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

No Film will has passed the 9lb large missile test. 7/16 impact glass with a .090 inner PVB layer doers not pass that test, there is no way a .008 mill film on 3/16 or 1/4 glass ever will. However 8 mil film does pass the small 2x4 and the sack of steel balls test for elevations above 30 feet. The issues with the state of FL are with the frame and how it is installed. If an engineer could verify the integrity of the frame members and that the proper length and size screws were holding it all to the walls then all is good.
Film can be sold as Hurricane "resistant" especially as a back up to a shutter or screen material. Safety films should be considered in areas not in the high wind zones. I wish the state of Florida would reconsider or come up with an approval process for those areas.

To the original question - your glass/film should be attached to the frame. You and your installer may want to consider BondKap for the wetglaze attachment. (shameless plug)

i know the horse is already dead and beat down, but that 4mil vs 8 mil in a residential application that guy was telling you is complete horse sheet.. that dude never hung 8 mil, and you were the sucker who believed him. But your a customer, he's the professional. Its hard to find "good" installers of 8 mil. Hell, I bet half of the so called installers on this board never have even hung 8 mil, much less ANY attachment! Im not trying to blow my own horn, but, this guy in your town probably never even bought anything thicker than 4 mil.. We used to see that ALL THE TIME in florida... what a gibrony.... I believe DC wants 3/16 or is it 3/8 bead at the minimum, so any DH window in your home that may have the thin alluminum frame it wont work for... If you have any recessed frames, or slider doors, I would recomend the 995. I didnt really read all the post, but if your looking for safety, you should be ok.. keep that bozo that installed the film away from the DOW and out of your home.. have a great day!