3M CERAMIC vs HUPER CERAMIC

of equal VLT please explain the difference.

I value this and will be passing sending the link of this thread to a customer so lets not say because 3m is crap but give valid reasons or opinions. I already know them but need a non-bias proof from trades people like you.

THANX IN ADVANCE

To give some insight,

3M claims they have a film that lets heat in in the winter and blocks in the summer. We all know this is HOG-WASH, however, it would be nice to have some replies from other professionals in the biz.

Much appreciated,
Richard

Found a good thread...

any input is still valued..

http://www.tintdude.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=40555

Do you ever get the feeling you are talking to yourself?

I do not think the ceramic specs are out to discuss as of yet.

YES..

http://advancedfilmfl.net/2008/02/17/multi...-solutions.aspx

This article is perfect...

I was in a panic. This business can be like that sometimes.. lol

This comparison (well written I might add) is geared to Prestige film. The ceramic versus ceramic comparison has different parameters.

What’s the big deal about ceramic film? They under perform, absorb too much heat and destroy your IG unit faster than any film. They are crap - ceramic bang wagon is long gone. If your customer is trying to block heat, sell dual reflective film, don’t be a disservice to them. Just last week I remove and replaced the whole west side of a house with ceramic film. It amazed me that a sales person would offer a ceramic40 film to block heat off the western exposure. Please offer honest service to your customers, you owe it to them.

We always offer 3 films that we feel will do the job. Not always ceramic, this case it was a contender. We provide info like features and benefits on the 3 and let custy decide. In this case, he chose the HO film. Then asked 3M to bid against it. The 3M guys told my customer that 3M ceramic blocks in summer and lets it in in the winter and called us to see if our does too. I found very amusing indeed. However, needed someone other than myself to compare the two.

So here I came...

Thanks guys (and Mike for the article I found)..

I disagree and feel that different films are for different applications. To say they are crap is crap. To say they rule is crap. It depends on the circumstances.

If I were to guess I would think that your knowledge regarding ceramic films is very limited by you’re statement that you have made.

Im not a huge fan of ceramic either, but sometimes ceramic is the best alternative. Its difficult to use any metalized film on a storefront where the customer wants people to see what they are selling. With ceramic, you can use a very light film that performs very well, w/o extreme absorption. In some cases, tenants arent allowed to use film on their windows b/c of the lease agreement. Should they choose to violate the agreement, ceramic would be the least noticeable.

Really, crap? C'mon now, just because you don't like it because it absorbs heat doesnt make it crap. What about black out? is that crap too because it absorbs heat? Not at all, because it does the job it's intended to do. Just as the ceramic does. What do you tell someone who lives in a deed restricted community and cannot have reflective film? "Sorry for your luck chump, I suggest you move." Or, "put some cardboard up there, that works!"

Agreed, kind of and ignorant comment. Most don't have a problem installing 46% SA film... what is the temperature difference between a 46%, a 48% a 50%, or even a 53% SA film and how much moreso would one affect an IG unit than the others if at all? Any proof?

As for 3M ceramic known facts:

60" limit

30, 40, 50% VLT's

So far no "dye-free" advertising

Brand new on the market

Huper ceramic known facts:

72" limit

20, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 60

"Dye Free"

NFRC Certified

Multi-ply construction

10yrs on the market

Yes while ceramics are not the best solution they do have a place in the market. As stated above the generally low reflectivity of the ceramics (some more reflective then others) is a good film for certain customers. While you can get better heat rejection from other films the appereance of those films are not always suitable to every application. I dont think ceramics are the best for for west exposures with high heat issues. Yes they do have high absorbtion rates and some more then others, I have experienced first hand a window facing west with a 30% ceramic film radiat heat that you can feel from about 6 feet away and the glass was to hot to hold your hand on for more then litterally a second. While there never was a glass issue as far as breakage or seal failure, if the customer is trying to let less heat in the room I dont think radiating heat into the room is a good fix for the customer.

Man how many times do you have to tell the same story about the dudes windows in his office...

Whenever the occasion is fit for it.

Great replies...

We use a lot of ESC35 HUPER OPTIK. Its a little more reflective over most ceramics but less than most DUAL REFLECTIVE films and its performance, clarity and aesthetics are liked by all.