LlumarMagnum SCL SR PS4 & Inspectors

May 5, 2005

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and thought I would bring up an issue I am having with a couple of inspectors in my area. I use LlumarMagnum 4 mil security to meet code for tempering in about 5 or 6 counties surrounding my location. It is a very, very small portion of my gross sales, but I do like to offer it to contractors and glass dealers as a means of repairing their mistakes when ordering annealed glass where tempered is required.

I have run into problems with 2 inspectors in the surrounding counties that will either not accept any film at all, or that will only accept 3M security film. The acceptance of 3M security film is due to a legacy report listed on the ICC-ES website that appears to be nothing more than a listing of what films were once listed in the BOCA manual, which is no longer the code reference.

I typed up a nice letter with a copy of the test and the results determined by the accredited testing organization. Obvoiusly, the determination was that the film meets the code requirements for safety glass under section 2406 of the International Building Code and ANSI Z97.1. Additionally I sent out a list of accredited testing laboratories of the International Accreditation Service (IAS) which I hoped would be enough for the inspector to change sides and accept the film. Only in my dreams.

I spoke with my manufacturer and we are moving forward from here, but if anyone has any advice besides switching to 3M, I am glad to listen. Since this is such a small portion of my business I am hoping to get some response from some of the larger dealers that are more experienced with safety films and dealing with inspectors.

tintslut · May 5, 2005

ran into a similar problem. Local inspectors kicked back a few installations. Perusing what materials

were listed by BOCA, we settled on GlassGard / Safegard products for acceptance. This is not to say that these products are any stronger than anyone elses products. Only that they are readily recognized and referenced by BOCA . The local inspectors require the glazing surface to be labeled, and they usually require a copy of the Intertek test reports for each install.

We do about 10 of these installations a month, Usually towards the end of the month, when people go for a final occupancy permit and are rejected due to improper glazing . The contractors choose to go the film route and replace with tempered glass when doing there punch lists. This is still cheaper than

a contractor paying the interest on a construction loan until settlement . Tempered IGU's have a 10 to 14 day lead time . That amounts to 2000 to 3000$ in interest the contractors would have to pay.

Tinters save the day and make everyone happy :thumb

May 5, 2005

Perusing what materials were listed by BOCA, we settled on GlassGard / Safegard products for acceptance. This is not to say that these products are any stronger than anyone elses products. Only that they are readily recognized and referenced by BOCA .

[*]281136

There lies the problem. The BOCA manual is obsolete to 45 states that have adopted the International Building Code (IBC). The International Code Council is comprised the big four building code evaluation services. The problem I have is that the code specifically states the requirements for safety glazing, LlumarMagnum meets those requirements, and the laboratory testing was carried out by an accredited testing organization endorsed by the International Acreditation Service (IAS) and the International Code Council Evalaluation Service. I have spent countless hours putting together information and researching anything the inspector may object to, hoping they would see that there is no risk in accepting the product. I even acquired a 4 mil clear exterior application film for IG units! Like I said I don't make a huge amount of money from the installations, but it is a service I offer, that also keeps me working closely with glass dealers from whom I get referrals. Like you said it saves them a buttload of time and money along with the hassle avoided by delaying occupancy permits, so there is usually no comparison to the cost of the film application.

I would try some other products by I am a loyal CPFilms Platinum Dealer. I spoke with the manufacturer and they were talking about some $$ with some zeros to be listed on a legacy report or something comparable to it whatever that may be. I know they are working on it, but this makes me nuts when I think about it. I have been battling with this inspector for over 2 years.

Thanks for the response Yoda.

Any ideas outside of the film switch that might convince or force him into accepting it? IMO he can't just reject something that meets the requirements of the code because he feels like it. He can't reject a handrail on a set of stairs because he doesn't like the brand of stain on it! It meets the code! arrgggg!

:thumb

tintslut · May 5, 2005

Any ideas outside of the film switch that might convince or force him into accepting it? IMO he can't just reject something that meets the requirements of the code because he feels like it. He can't reject a handrail on a set of stairs because he doesn't like the brand of stain on it! It meets the code! arrgggg!

[*]281159

therein lies the problem. Sure he can reject it. You could take him to court, spend a lot of $$ and still have no disceranable outcome. We had 2 applications rejected because the manufacturer supplied label had a ONE transposed word. The person in charge of the entire inspection department called the manufacturer, raked them over the coals, all over semantics.

Had some custom labels printed up , with the errors fixed, installation approved.

Look over whats available to the industry, and ask the inspection department if those materials will pass there muster.

Submit some glazing samples , with the film installed, labeled and with the correct documentation. IT wont cost a lot of $$.

probably less than you think. Submittals are done all the time for architect approval. If you are in tight with a glass co,

you could probably get 12" x 12 " glass samples free of charge

May 5, 2005

Any ideas outside of the film switch that might convince or force him into accepting it? IMO he can't just reject something that meets the requirements of the code because he feels like it. He can't reject a handrail on a set of stairs because he doesn't like the brand of stain on it! It meets the code! arrgggg!

[*]281159

Submit some glazing samples , with the film installed, labeled and with the correct documentation. IT wont cost a lot of $$.

probably less than you think. Submittals are done all the time for architect approval. If you are in tight with a glass co,

you could probably get 12" x 12 " glass samples free of charge

[*]281199

Great idea. It looks like I may just have to look into carrying 3M just so I can beat this guy, maybe no other option. I have never been required to sticker the window before, but the issue surfaced during my latest encounter with an inspector. Does anyone know if CPFilms offers stickers to be placed upon the unit to meet the code?