CERAMIC TINT OR METAL?

Protint · December 22, 2006

OK. THATS WHAT I WANTED TO HEAR. THE BRAND IS FORMULA ONE. I GUESS ITS A GOOD PRODUCT. ANY COMPARISION TO SOLAR GARD?

No comparison to Solar Gard what so ever. LuLu's AT and ATR series is supposed to be comprable but not in my book. :beer

January 1, 2007

Don't let anyone sway you away from pigmented or dyed film products... you get the right chemistry in either of these coloring agents, you get a film color that'll outlast your ownership of the car... this has been accomplished by many film products today.

Can you explain more about this, as it goes against a lot of what people say. "Outlast your ownership of car" as in five years or fifteen years? The metalics and ceramics don't last longer than the dyed? I know some auto dealerships in my town use Formulaone "comfort" which is a hybrid dyed and metalic, it's half the price of the metalic or ceramic. It comes with a lifetime warranty but not against color fading.

January 1, 2007

Can you explain more about this, as it goes against a lot of what people say. "Outlast your ownership of car" as in five years or fifteen years? The metallics and ceramics don't last longer than the dyed? I know some auto dealerships in my town use Formulaone "comfort" which is a hybrid dyed and metallic, it's half the price of the metallic or ceramic. It comes with a lifetime warranty but not against color fading.

I'll give it a shot to the best of my understanding...

From a technical standpoint it matters little the deposition aka metal, ceramic, IR absorbing goo (questionable material ? dye, pigment or other), combination of all or two, and LLu's new ATX deposition technology, they all have longevity within the film construction (some depositions are more prone to corrosion along film edges... pure metals like silver, aluminum or copper). However, and for the most part, they're all pretty stable (encapsulated) within the film structure. :dunno

What does not have longevity is the polyester, the adhesive and the UV absorbers. The first two, poly and adhesive, rely on the third, UV absorbers, for their longevity... the weaker the UV absorber (or poorer the quality), the less of it used and the location of UV absorbers, determine the life span of the polyester and the adhesive... all (poly, glue, UV abs) combined protect the deposition.

UV absorbers do little to protect dyes or pigments. Now, pigments are known to outlast some dyes used in the film industry, but today there are dyes or combinations of dyes that make the grade and can last and last. However, dyes are more susceptible to fading than a pigment.

Comfort has a lifetime warranty (aka ownership of the car), yes, against color change not color fade. It contains color-stable technology that allows the dye combination to remain on color while the sun does its usual fade damage.

A recent real time observation of a similar product (ATR CH) in the Texas sun for 3 1/2 years, four summers, showed the color-stable dye combination to remain on color and lose a very minute amount of density (VLT) from 38% to 39%, which could easily fall within the error factor of the light meter used to determine this number. Comfort shall perform similarly.

So, for arguments sake, it can be concluded that there was no change in the film color or density of color over that period of time, compared to the old version of the product that would have shown purple in about two years time.

When price differs from one film to another, it is based on the amount of time spent in constructing the product (including number of passes through any given piece of equipment), cost of materials used to build a product, salaries of those producing product and how many hands were handling each and every component (aka how many locations it must go to for each of the processes) before the finished product arrives to a shop door via UPS or FedEx. :lol2

January 1, 2007

I havn't heard of any ceramic film being darker than 30%

if you want dark film and can have dark film in your state then you'll need to find another film other than the ceramic films.

on a black BMW 30% would look good even 40% all around.

January 2, 2007

I havn't heard of any ceramic film being darker than 30%
if you want dark film and can have dark film in your state then you'll need to find another film other than the ceramic films.

on a black BMW 30% would look good even 40% all around.

Ceramics have been produced as dark as 15% vlt. But they haven't come to market in the US.

January 2, 2007

A recent real time observation of a similar product (ATR CH) in the Texas sun for 3 1/2 years, four summers, showed the color-stable dye combination to remain on color and lose a very minute amount of density (VLT) from 38% to 39%, which could easily fall within the error factor of the light meter used to determine this number. Comfort shall perform similarly.
So, for arguments sake, it can be concluded that there was no change in the film color or density of color over that period of time, compared to the old version of the product that would have shown purple in about two years time.

Where did the vehicle spend the majority of it's time, indoors or outside? Was the old version of the product subjected to the same control environment as the ATR?

BIG E · January 2, 2007

Where did the vehicle spend the majority of it's time, indoors or outside? Was the old version of the product subjected to the same control environment as the ATR?

Wass up Dave? Give the dude an answer!

January 2, 2007

Thanks for such a complete answer Filmdit, that was extremely helpful. I had been ignoring UV ratings for various lines, figuring "they're all over 99%." But in light of what you said about that being a primary constituent of longevity, I realize the 99.9% UV rating of the higher ends films is part of why they're more expensive and more guaranteed (not necessarily the metal or ceramic itself). The "comfort" line (hybrid) is only 99%, hence more prone to damage.

Comfort has a lifetime warranty (aka ownership of the car), yes, against color change not color fade. It contains color-stable technology that allows the dye combination to remain on color while the sun does its usual fade damage.

Actually, according to the F1 site Comfort does not have a warranty against color changing, they just claim it's more stable than the lowest Classic line. (As an aside, I wonder why the tucson auto dealers use this line when you'd think they'd have angry customers back in five years complaining about fading.)

It's the three higher end F1 lines that have the color change warranty. That is: the Premier (metalic), Ultimate (metalic, lower reflectivity), and Pinnacle (ceramic).

After thinking about your post, my assessment is as follows: Among the high end F1 lines, the Premier and Ultimate (both metalic) are equal in longevity and function; but you pay more for the latter because of aesthetics (low reflectivity). The Pinnacle is functionally equal to the above, but you pay even more because of it's claim to not interfere with electronics. Since I don't use cell phone in car and don't have gps (I'm buying a Honda Fit for God's sakes), I should probably just go with the Ultimate or Premier, depending on which one looks the best to me.

A recent real time observation of a similar product (ATR CH) in the Texas sun for 3 1/2 years, four summers, showed the color-stable dye combination to remain on color and lose a very minute amount of density (VLT) from 38% to 39%, which could easily fall within the error factor of the light meter used to determine this number. Comfort shall perform similarly.

Starting to fading in three years doesn't sound that great to me. I live in southern arizona and expect to own my car for at least ten years, so probably need more longevity.

By the way, Sprinter, you said ceramics aren't available darker than 30%. Formulaone Pinnacle goes down to 15, and they claim to be ceramic.

Jonathan

January 2, 2007

Where did the vehicle spend the majority of it's time, indoors or outside? Was the old version of the product subjected to the same control environment as the ATR?

Want to hear it straight from the source? Details can be had through Steve @ hobson glass in grapeland TX... yes, both times the car was outside in the sun (no garage).

Wass up Dave? Give the dude an answer!

Thanks for such a complete answer Filmdit, that was extremely helpful. I had been ignoring UV ratings for various lines, figuring "they're all over 99%." But in light of what you said about that being a primary constituent of longevity, I realize the 99.9% UV rating of the higher ends films is part of why they're more expensive and more guaranteed (not necessarily the metal or ceramic itself). The "comfort" line (hybrid) is only 99%, hence more prone to damage.
Actually, according to the F1 site Comfort does not have a warranty against color changing, they just claim it's more stable than the lowest Classic line. (As an aside, I wonder why the tucson auto dealers use this line when you'd think they'd have angry customers back in five years complaining about fading.)

It's the three higher end F1 lines that have the color change warranty. That is: the Premier (metalic), Ultimate (metalic, lower reflectivity), and Pinnacle (ceramic).

After thinking about your post, my assessment is as follows: Among the high end F1 lines, the Premier and Ultimate (both metalic) are equal in longevity and function; but you pay more for the latter because of aesthetics (low reflectivity). The Pinnacle is functionally equal to the above, but you pay even more because of it's claim to not interfere with electronics. Since I don't use cell phone in car and don't have gps (I'm buying a Honda Fit for God's sakes), I should probably just go with the Ultimate or Premier, depending on which one looks the best to me.

Starting to fading in three years doesn't sound that great to me. I live in southern arizona and expect to own my car for at least ten years, so probably need more longevity.

By the way, Sprinter, you said ceramics aren't available darker than 30%. Formulaone Pinnacle goes down to 15, and they claim to be ceramic.

Jonathan

UV absorbers are not cheap, this is for sure.

Comfort and Classis, despite what an outdated webpage may say, is warranted against turning purple (aka color change).

The ceramic Sprinter is speaking of is a different product from F1 and they do have lower than 30 outside the US market. Though F1 and other CPFilms products have used ceramics of a differing type for years in combination with metal, this other product Sprint speaks of made the term 'Ceramic' an industry name (or buzzword) with their introduction of a purely ceramic product with excellent VLT, low reflectivity and high performance in terms of TSER (total solar energy rejection).

Ultimate would be my choice between the two you are tossing about. Premier, IMO, is too metallic in appearance when compared to Ultimate. Not that you would choose Ultimate 50 in AZ, but it is an example of ceramic/metal combination deposition.

Good luck...

February 10, 2007

I was wondering what the other plusses and minuses--aside from the electronic interference issues--between a metallic (like f1 ultimate) and a ceramic (like f1 pinnacle)? Optical clarity, glare, etc. They seem similar in the "stats" but someone told me he had less nighttime light dispersion with pinnacle compared to ultimate.