Blew 3M out of the water today

flat rock stan · February 28, 2008

I'm moving to Ohio with that kind of money even on regular film. :rollin what's cost of living like :dunno

Cuttingedge · February 28, 2008

Congrats
Prestige 70 and Geo IRIS 70 look and perform the same because they use similar technology and neither of them are "nano-ceramic."

In a market that suffers from underpricing, I don't think I mind hearing stories about a dealer who charges $15.+ per square foot. If you study this industry's retail pricing structure and inflation over the last 20 years, $12-15. per sq ft is where things ought to be.

I guess Geoshield better change their website descriptions then:

"Geoshield offers a new line of designer nano-ceramic window films for residential applications. Similar ceramic materials have been used by NASA for years to create space shuttle tiles because of their outstanding thermal properties. Geoshield's window films are spectrally-selective, which means they allow high transmission of visible light and low transmission of infrared, heat-producing light. This also means that Geoshield is able to make its films light in color and virtually invisible, so they are very aesthetically pleasing. Geoshield's films will far outperform even much darker conventional window films. They also effectively filter over 99% of the sun's harmful UV rays, which will help protect your furnishings as well as you and your family. Geoshield's films allow customers to maintain the vision they want while keeping out the heat they don't, which is especially important as families work to keep up with rising energy costs."

I like higher selling per sqft pricing as much as the next guy but I also don't believe in price gouging either. The customer even showed me their quote sheet before I even stated a price so I could of priced it just $200 cheaper and still would of got the job. Sometimes you have to put yourself in the consumer's shoes. They definitely could of afford the $2500 by looking at the size of their house and the neighborhood, but weren't ignorant to price gouging either. Im sure some might say thats not a smart business move to take less money, but I am a big believer in offering fair prices for a great installed product and customer service.

They have single-ply ceramic films but IRIS 70 is not one of them. Also the specs for the IRIS 70 are on 1/4" single pane rather than 1/8" single pane. That is a bit misleading -imo but 3M has their own misleading specification as well. Touche!

Hey you won that bid fair and square and your pricing is surely is not low. I have no problem with that at all. I just hear people on this site complain about $99. tint jobs and employees needed better wages, etc... so I don't have a problem with nor do I see $15. sq ft as price gouging. Additionally, it is hard to determine what should be charges without seeing the job and knowing the distance of travel, etc.

I feel yah bro.... 3 panes approx 6ft x 5 ft ground level and the other three above them about 10 feet off the ground, 3 year old house, vinyl edges, plenty of room to work, and about 20 miles from me.

Nice job, less than an hour travel and about 2 hrs setup/tear down and install. Good day.

If your 3M guy comes down in price in the future to meet your pricing, how are you going to sell against him? Lower your price? See what I am getting at is don't fall into the habit of "blowing the competition out of the water" with lower pricing. In this case, it is not so much your sq ft pricing that concerns me but rather the attitude that may lead to market devistation rather than market preservation. If you want to move into window film full-time someday, you need to start preserving your market now. Your sq ft pricing is fine, just ask yourself how you will sell against someone who matches your price. 3M Prestige is easy to sell against even when your sq ft pricing is higher, hone your skillz in that department so you prevent a pricing battle...

Thats why I dont like getting into too serious of discussions on the net because you missed my post intentions. What I was trying to convey was that I blew the 3M name out of the water by showing the customer that their numbers are numbers at an angle and not straight on like the rest of the industry does and that just because 3M is a household name, doesnt mean their product is the best, especially when no one has actually seen a 3M Window Film maufacturing plant in person.... I posted the pricing to show how high some companies are willing to go to make their products sound "elite". I agree with you on never lowering my prices, if anything they will go up even if the next guy that bids against me lowballs. Like I said I believe in standing behind my prices and not quoting big and then having to negotiate down. And BTW, you dont have to work 7 days a week at your business to be full-time. :dunno

Cuttingedge · February 28, 2008

I'm moving to Ohio with that kind of money even on regular film. what's cost of living like

Average cost of living ...New 2000 sf homes sell at about Low 200,000's. Average apt rent in a decent suburb area is around $650-$750/month, Starbucks is about $2.50 for a small latte, Gasoline is at $3.09 a gallon, Gallon of milk is $2.39 most days.

February 28, 2008

Congrats
Prestige 70 and Geo IRIS 70 look and perform the same because they use similar technology and neither of them are "nano-ceramic."

In a market that suffers from underpricing, I don't think I mind hearing stories about a dealer who charges $15.+ per square foot. If you study this industry's retail pricing structure and inflation over the last 20 years, $12-15. per sq ft is where things ought to be.

I guess Geoshield better change their website descriptions then:

"Geoshield offers a new line of designer nano-ceramic window films for residential applications. Similar ceramic materials have been used by NASA for years to create space shuttle tiles because of their outstanding thermal properties. Geoshield's window films are spectrally-selective, which means they allow high transmission of visible light and low transmission of infrared, heat-producing light. This also means that Geoshield is able to make its films light in color and virtually invisible, so they are very aesthetically pleasing. Geoshield's films will far outperform even much darker conventional window films. They also effectively filter over 99% of the sun's harmful UV rays, which will help protect your furnishings as well as you and your family. Geoshield's films allow customers to maintain the vision they want while keeping out the heat they don't, which is especially important as families work to keep up with rising energy costs."

I like higher selling per sqft pricing as much as the next guy but I also don't believe in price gouging either. The customer even showed me their quote sheet before I even stated a price so I could of priced it just $200 cheaper and still would of got the job. Sometimes you have to put yourself in the consumer's shoes. They definitely could of afford the $2500 by looking at the size of their house and the neighborhood, but weren't ignorant to price gouging either. Im sure some might say thats not a smart business move to take less money, but I am a big believer in offering fair prices for a great installed product and customer service.

They have single-ply ceramic films but IRIS 70 is not one of them. Also the specs for the IRIS 70 are on 1/4" single pane rather than 1/8" single pane. That is a bit misleading -imo but 3M has their own misleading specification as well. Touche!

Hey you won that bid fair and square and your pricing is surely is not low. I have no problem with that at all. I just hear people on this site complain about $99. tint jobs and employees needed better wages, etc... so I don't have a problem with nor do I see $15. sq ft as price gouging. Additionally, it is hard to determine what should be charges without seeing the job and knowing the distance of travel, etc.

I feel yah bro.... 3 panes approx 6ft x 5 ft ground level and the other three above them about 10 feet off the ground, 3 year old house, vinyl edges, plenty of room to work, and about 20 miles from me.

Nice job, less than an hour travel and about 2 hrs setup/tear down and install. Good day.

If your 3M guy comes down in price in the future to meet your pricing, how are you going to sell against him? Lower your price? See what I am getting at is don't fall into the habit of "blowing the competition out of the water" with lower pricing. In this case, it is not so much your sq ft pricing that concerns me but rather the attitude that may lead to market devistation rather than market preservation. If you want to move into window film full-time someday, you need to start preserving your market now. Your sq ft pricing is fine, just ask yourself how you will sell against someone who matches your price. 3M Prestige is easy to sell against even when your sq ft pricing is higher, hone your skillz in that department so you prevent a pricing battle...

Thats why I dont like getting into too serious of discussions on the net because you missed my post intentions. What I was trying to convey was that I blew the 3M name out of the water by showing the customer that their numbers are numbers at an angle and not straight on like the rest of the industry does and that just because 3M is a household name, doesnt mean their product is the best, especially when no one has actually seen a 3M Window Film maufacturing plant in person.... I posted the pricing to show how high some companies are willing to go to make their products sound "elite". I agree with you on never lowering my prices, if anything they will go up even if the next guy that bids against me lowballs. Like I said I believe in standing behind my prices and not quoting big and then having to negotiate down. And BTW, you dont have to work 7 days a week at your business to be full-time.

You missed his point, if you had come in @ the same pricing as 3M (mabye .50 - .75 cents a sq less) would you have blowen the 3M film outta the water, would they have gone with you, or would they have called someone else to try and find a "cheaper" price? :shock :shock

hoosierwindowtek · February 28, 2008

CuttingEdge,

I think you're on the right track.

The main thing to be careful about with films that cost 3 bucks per sq. ft. or more is to account for waste, and potential mistakes when bidding a job.

It's good to have a minimum job price in case someone only wants a sliding glass door done or something. You don't want a situation like this:

Patio door, 2 panes @ 38x76 sq. ft = 40 You order film 48" x 20ft so you have enough film to do a panel twice if you mess one up. The cost of the film is $240.00 If you price the job @ 10 bucks/square foot, you charge 400 bucks and make 160.00 OR, you could use a more standard film, priced at 5 bucks/square foot, pricing the job @ 200, minus 40 bucks for film cost and come out with the same amount of profit.

If you don't make more money selling a more expensive film, there's not much point in putting yourself out for the pricier inventory. JMHO :rollin

Cuttingedge · February 28, 2008

If I would of come in at $200 to $300 cheaper they still would of went with me I believe. They were kind of put off by the real truth about 3M than anything. They definitely had the funds to pay it. And Hoosier, Geo didnt quote me at $3 per square, more like $2.25 and yeah I do account for the job size and install effort before I quote, I dont think I would really recommend a ceramic for just a set of sliders, wouldnt make sense unless they were dead set on it. I do like the fact that Geo sells film in increments of 10 feet and not just 25 (10% upcharge though) for those smaller jobs. Also I wont be using scaffolding, a 14ft A-frame will do just fine....So less set up time fo sho.

flat rock stan · February 28, 2008

I'm moving to Ohio with that kind of money even on regular film. what's cost of living like

Average cost of living ...New 2000 sf homes sell at about Low 200,000's. Average apt rent in a decent suburb area is around $650-$750/month, Starbucks is about $2.50 for a small latte, Gasoline is at $3.09 a gallon, Gallon of milk is $2.39 most days.

dang! to high for me!!!!! I think you did great. Honest price for job. Price 50 - 75 less than the dirty m's and someone blows YOU out of the water and didn't you say SNOW on the ground? :dunno

On my website I have a list of MAJOR TINTING MANUFACTURERS. You don't see m's there :rollin

Cuttingedge · February 28, 2008

I'm moving to Ohio with that kind of money even on regular film. what's cost of living like

Average cost of living ...New 2000 sf homes sell at about Low 200,000's. Average apt rent in a decent suburb area is around $650-$750/month, Starbucks is about $2.50 for a small latte, Gasoline is at $3.09 a gallon, Gallon of milk is $2.39 most days.

dang! to high for me!!!!! I think you did great. Honest price for job. Price 50 - 75 less than the dirty m's and someone blows YOU out of the water and didn't you say SNOW on the ground?

On my website I have a list of MAJOR TINTING MANUFACTURERS. You don't see m's there

Funny you said I wouldnt see 3M's on your site, when I clicked on your link, your website popped up and there was a Google Adword ad for 3M window Tint.... :shock :dunno :shock :dunno :shock seriously there was....

flat rock stan · February 29, 2008

I'm moving to Ohio with that kind of money even on regular film. what's cost of living like

Average cost of living ...New 2000 sf homes sell at about Low 200,000's. Average apt rent in a decent suburb area is around $650-$750/month, Starbucks is about $2.50 for a small latte, Gasoline is at $3.09 a gallon, Gallon of milk is $2.39 most days.

dang! to high for me!!!!! I think you did great. Honest price for job. Price 50 - 75 less than the dirty m's and someone blows YOU out of the water and didn't you say SNOW on the ground?

On my website I have a list of MAJOR TINTING MANUFACTURERS. You don't see m's there

Funny you said I wouldnt see 3M's on your site, when I clicked on your link, your website popped up and there was a Google Adword ad for 3M window Tint.... seriously there was....

now there you go! you got me there! I'v seen it there............. Never believe them google ads dude!!!!! :barf :lol

February 29, 2008

CuttingEdge,
I think you're on the right track.

The main thing to be careful about with films that cost 3 bucks per sq. ft. or more is to account for waste, and potential mistakes when bidding a job.

It's good to have a minimum job price in case someone only wants a sliding glass door done or something. You don't want a situation like this:

Patio door, 2 panes @ 38x76 sq. ft = 40 You order film 48" x 20ft so you have enough film to do a panel twice if you mess one up. The cost of the film is $240.00 If you price the job @ 10 bucks/square foot, you charge 400 bucks and make 160.00 OR, you could use a more standard film, priced at 5 bucks/square foot, pricing the job @ 200, minus 40 bucks for film cost and come out with the same amount of profit.

If you don't make more money selling a more expensive film, there's not much point in putting yourself out for the pricier inventory. JMHO

if you don't mess up any film you would use only 13 feet and your cost on film would be 156.00, at 10 per you would make another 84.00 in your pocket.