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70% VLT, high heat rejection films?

Guest Diamond

By Guest Diamond
in Window Tinting - General Discussion

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Guest maddtinter

Guest maddtinter

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So liltails I speak the truth is that not ok?Knowledge comes from hands on experience ie. trial and error.I only speak with what I have experienced.Whe some one doesn't explain the facts(truth) I will not respect what they read or are told.You ask who do I think I am.Huh, I may be new to this forum but I can honestly you tell you that for the past 7 years(make that 20)I have tinted cars,that is it.No PPF,just tint.Well over 50,000 cars you name it I have probably done it.When a problem arised in my shop I didn't resort to outside information I took care of it myself.Go ahead pick my brain,see if I come up an honest answer.I also am not looking to win some kind of an award. :rollin

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Guest Diamond

Guest Diamond

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Thanks for all the comments so far! Let's see if I can figure out how to reply to everyone. No one's responded much on my questions about 3M Crystalline (except Maddtinter - can you give specifics? I added more questions under your quote below) or the GeoShield IRis 70 - do people not have any experience with them?

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with your extensive knowlage of tint I would go with glidden 40% it has no metal's in it :rollin

anyway's stick with the ceramic even though it's $$$$$$$$$$$$. check this site out www.huperoptikusa.com

I personally dont like the color stabble stuff ,though sunteck carbon is a good looking fim for the money.

Tintmanlibby- I did consider the Huber Optik ceramic tints, but they only go up to 60% VLT, and I'd like to stay up around 70% or higher. Hey, if Glidden made 70% VLT with good heat rejection, I'd definitely consider it! :thumb

If you're just putting a fancy film on the front two windows (and a darker traditional or ceramic on the back) I doubt you'll get any RF signal interference. So V-Kool 70 on the front roll downs is my vote.

DarkDan - yeah, V-kool was high on my list of tints until I found out it was metallized and interfered with signal. I'd like to have the same tint on all my windows, but maybe I'll have to give that up. I still want to have it all, though :thumb - that's why I'm asking about the ceramics, Crystalline 70 and GeoShield IRis 70....

The only way you canHuper film achieve a 70% VLT is finding a film with more than 80% VLT.CA law is net measurement(film and glass).Your factory glass will read anywhere from 74-79% VLT.Huper film should be left out because it is not for the auto market.Huper carries a reflective look and has metal in it.As far as the other films go 3M is garbage,they have not produced a lasting auto product for 15+ years.Never heard of Geo films untill I joined this forum.If you are going to film your front doors illegally try Formula-One Pinnacle Film(PI 50) its performance should be enough at 43% TSER with no metal in it.

Maddtinter - I wish I could find a film that was 90 or 100% VLT and might actually be legal in CA and that rejects heat, but I don't think it exists...yet. So I want to get something as close to legal as possible (also still considering not using tint on the front side windows). I did look at Formula One Pinnacle, but 50% VLT is too low for me. I want to stay up near 70% or higher.

Why do you say that 3M film is garbage? Why don't they last - what happens when they get old? Do you know anything about the Crystalline line in particular? I'm probably way out in left field, but you know what they say about stocks - past performance is no guarantee of future performance - so I'm hoping that even if some of their past films sucked, maybe their newer ones are better. I haven't seen much specific about 3M, other than some flame wars about how 3M sucks, and then someone else will respond that the poster is just bitter because they couldn't get 3M, etc. But what's wrong with 3M films, specificallly the Crystalline line?

Any film at 70% vlt will meter lower due to the glass. Huper works on auto (if you are a good installer) but their lightest film (ACHT) is 77% vlt which will put you under the legal limit in CA. PI 50 willl be even worse so I don't know why you'd recommend that one...

Vclimber - thanks for the suggestion of the HO Acht, I hadn't looked at it, but now that I do, it looks like it's metallized, so I'm guessing that it will behave a lot like the V-kool 75 film..... I've read some of your other posts, so I know you're not a fan of 3M, but do you know anything about the Crystalline line?

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Guest vclimber

Guest vclimber

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So liltails I speak the truth is that not ok?Knowledge comes from hands on experience ie. trial and error.I only speak with what I have experienced.Whe some one doesn't explain the facts(truth) I will not respect what they read or are told.You ask who do I think I am.Huh, I may be new to this forum but I can honestly you tell you that for the past 7 years(make that 20)I have tinted cars,that is it.No PPF,just tint.Well over 50,000 cars you name it I have probably done it.When a problem arised in my shop I didn't resort to outside information I took care of it myself.Go ahead pick my brain,see if I come up an honest answer.I also am not looking to win some kind of an award. :rollin

I like your truth about TiN. Good stuff... :thumb

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Guest maddtinter

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The adhesive system in the 3m auto film will bubble.This has been going on since they had Panther films back in the early 90's.Their CS(color stable film)looks extremely hazy and leaves really bad impressions inthe film at the top of your rollups.Crystalline I do not know much about I can only assume the adhesive is the same for the past 10+ years.Heat rejection sounds to be of most importance to your specific needs therefore V-Kool is my choice the only problem is what you alreadt know,metal.Have you considered that reducing glare makes it feel more comfortable when driving.I have installed PI50 in CA all around(except windshield)not once has a ticket been issued that I am aware of.

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Guest maddtinter

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So liltails I speak the truth is that not ok?Knowledge comes from hands on experience ie. trial and error.I only speak with what I have experienced.Whe some one doesn't explain the facts(truth) I will not respect what they read or are told.You ask who do I think I am.Huh, I may be new to this forum but I can honestly you tell you that for the past 7 years(make that 20)I have tinted cars,that is it.No PPF,just tint.Well over 50,000 cars you name it I have probably done it.When a problem arised in my shop I didn't resort to outside information I took care of it myself.Go ahead pick my brain,see if I come up an honest answer.I also am not looking to win some kind of an award. :thumb

I like your truth about TiN. Good stuff... :beer

There is two elements in TiN,Tianium and Nitrogen.So you are saying that the Titanium transforms into something else.I don't by it.So what causes the RF issues ?
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Guest vclimber

Guest vclimber

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So liltails I speak the truth is that not ok?Knowledge comes from hands on experience ie. trial and error.I only speak with what I have experienced.Whe some one doesn't explain the facts(truth) I will not respect what they read or are told.You ask who do I think I am.Huh, I may be new to this forum but I can honestly you tell you that for the past 7 years(make that 20)I have tinted cars,that is it.No PPF,just tint.Well over 50,000 cars you name it I have probably done it.When a problem arised in my shop I didn't resort to outside information I took care of it myself.Go ahead pick my brain,see if I come up an honest answer.I also am not looking to win some kind of an award. :thumb

I like your truth about TiN. Good stuff... :beer

There is two elements in TiN,Tianium and Nitrogen.So you are saying that the Titanium transforms into something else.I don't by it.So what causes the RF issues ?

I am not saying that, chemistry says it. When you combine the elements Titanium and Nitrogen it becomes an inert substance that can no longer take or lose an electron. So it can no longer go through a chemical reaction such as corrosion. Chemistry classifies this inert substance as a ceramic. Ceramics can be conductive and non-conductive... TiN is a conductive ceramic, that is what can cause RF issues.

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Guest maddtinter

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Would you want to buy a car when the radio does not work properly due to the window rilm on the back window?Or maybe you have a radar detector that does not perform to its potential.Most people care about the proper function of all electronics in their car.That is why this post was started.That the metal in Huper film that is causing RF issues because it is a conductive ceramic.

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Guest Diamond

Guest Diamond

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Okay, I might be re-igniting the war here, but here's my understanding about metals and signal interference (I'm an engineer, but not an electrical engineer, so take it for what it's worth).

If you run electrical current through conductive material (like a metal), it generates an electromagnetic field. This is how transmitting antennas work - the transmitter uses a current to generate a giant electromagnetic field that radiates out from the transmitter. If you put metal in an electromagnetic field, the field will generate an electrical current in the metal. This is how receiving antennas work - the antenna takes the electromagnetic field broadcast by the transmitter and generates a current, which is the signal that then goes to your radio or GPS or whatever. If you have a receiving antenna on your car, and you put extra metal on the car around the antenna (like a metallized tint film), the extra metal messes with the antenna's ability to generate the electrical curent, and you get bad reception. I think of ceramics as being non-conductive, so they shouldn't cause reception problems.

So what about titanium nitride? Is it a metal or a ceramic? Wikipedia says it's a conductive ceramic. Ummm, okay. :thumb Wikipedia also says that TiN is used as a "barrier metal" and has good enough conductivity to electrically connect good conductors like copper to semiconductors like silicon, while keeping them physically separate. In addition, Wikipedia says that TiN is normally made by vaporizing Ti and having it react with N. I've sputtered metals before, but never while reacting them with something else, so I don't have direct experience - but the description did make me wonder if there could be pure metal impurities left in the TiN (note that I have no good reason to think this, I'm purely speculating). Anyway, the info I found makes me think that TiN *is* a ceramic, but there could be reasons that it might still interfere with radio/GPS signals. I've certainly seen some posts/complaints about reception with the HO and the Johnson ceramic films - wonder if the quality varies from batch to batch of film? (Again, pure speculation on my part) Just my :beer

Does anyone know of any reception problems with the two films I asked about - Crystalline 70 or GeoShield 70?

For more, see wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_(radio)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_metal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride

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Guest vclimber

Guest vclimber

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Would you want to buy a car when the radio does not work properly due to the window rilm on the back window?Or maybe you have a radar detector that does not perform to its potential.Most people care about the proper function of all electronics in their car.That is why this post was started.That the metal in Huper film that is causing RF issues because it is a conductive ceramic.

Seeing that you do not install any Huper Ceramic, you are not in a position to say that it causes RF issues on every vehicle. The post was started because the consumer was looking for a high vlt film with good heat rejection performance and no RF issues. We do BMW's, Mercedes, Audi, Volvos, Porsche, and other vehicles that have NAV, tire sensors, sat, and the like and rarely have any problems. If we do, it has always been fixed. That is my experience... I have their films on my vehicles and everythig works fine.

The performance #'s show that the ceramic films can outperform a lot of the hybrids and IR absorbing dyed films. Just as important as proper function is also having a film that will reject a lot of heat and not discolor due to the dye in the film. Huper films do not have dyes, very important in my book. Automotive is not my passion so I don't obsess over it as you seem too. My guys do a great job, they always have, if for some reason there is a vehicle that can't be done then we sell another film, simple as that...

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