Astronomy Picture of the Day

[TINTZEUS]

A thousand years ago Christians burned people like me at the stake.

Thats too funny DD.

[tint45]

It's obvious that nobody is going to change anyone elses mind on this matter - much less so on a web forum format. I think we've all been here long enough to garner respect for each other as individuals and, as such, can let the popcorn munchers down by keeping it civil. As much as some may be bored by this type of discourse, I could do this all day; and I'd wager a guess that I'm not the only one...

If you think you understand them, then chances are you don't. These people devote their lives to them. You think you can read wikipedia and have the same understanding? You might be able to name the theory, but you don't understand the inner workings of it.

If you think they're so wrong, where's your side's evidence and theories?

It appears that you're saying that unless you devote your life to the studies of science, you can't really understand them. If this is the case then what is the point of the masses having any knowledge of it at all. Further, it looks like you're suggesting that we should take all that these scientists tell us in faith as fact simply because they "understand" it all better, all this regardless of any inclination of feeling that something doesn't quite make sense.

This all seems very familiar. Perhaps similar to the kinds of things that used to happen in the ... DARK AGES!! Yes, the church leaders in those days devoted their lives to their causes. Perhaps if I had lived in those times and mentioned that I wasn't sure about the official doctorine of the sciences, I'd be told that I couldn't, as a layperson, possibly understand such things as I've not invested the proper time needed to grasp the concepts (I might at that point be reassured that pleny of evidence is there and I need not trouble myself with the quanderies of my own mind). If I would push a bit further I'm sure I'd be castigated - even persecuted; demands might even be made that I substantiate my questions with evidence.

It is obviously better to live in this time where questioning the masses will not result in death, although presuming that all of those that questioned things in the dark age were murdered is probably a bit dramatic.

Here's the more immediate issue that I'm concerned with. I can make demands all that I want for evidence of this or that scientific theory and I'm being told that I can't actually understand the evidence that I want, but I am assured that the evidence is there. It appears implied that I should go ahead and accept what I'm being told, and if I've got a problem with it, I'd better be ready with some evidence - but I'd guess that I can't take the same liberty of suggesting that my proof is too complicated and that one should just take it as a given.

[Guest darkdan]

Here's the more immediate issue that I'm concerned with. I can make demands all that I want for evidence of this or that scientific theory and I'm being told that I can't actually understand the evidence that I want, but I am assured that the evidence is there. It appears implied that I should go ahead and accept what I'm being told, and if I've got a problem with it, I'd better be ready with some evidence - but I'd guess that I can't take the same liberty of suggesting that my proof is too complicated and that one should just take it as a given.

If you study it, you WILL understand it though. But they are complicated subjects and without putting in the time to study and learn you can't understand it. Have you ever seen a journal? They're insane. I get the abstract on stuff, but after page 1 I'm lost. This also might explain why there's an inversely proportional relationship between religiosity and education. So if you want to see the evidence, question the evidence, and develop your own hypotheses you can.

We do the same thing. There's a learning curve to window tinting. Does a DIYer have every bit of knowledge and understanding that veteran window tinters have? No. Do they have the potential to learn? Yes.

And don't take anything as given, that's the point of science. It's a strive to understand the natural world. What's GIVEN and can't be changed is religious dogma.

[Tint Artist]

[vanja]

Here's the more immediate issue that I'm concerned with. I can make demands all that I want for evidence of this or that scientific theory and I'm being told that I can't actually understand the evidence that I want, but I am assured that the evidence is there. It appears implied that I should go ahead and accept what I'm being told, and if I've got a problem with it, I'd better be ready with some evidence - but I'd guess that I can't take the same liberty of suggesting that my proof is too complicated and that one should just take it as a given.

If you study it, you WILL understand it though. But they are complicated subjects and without putting in the time to study and learn you can't understand it. Have you ever seen a journal? They're insane. I get the abstract on stuff, but after page 1 I'm lost. This also might explain why there's an inversely proportional relationship between religiosity and education. So if you want to see the evidence, question the evidence, and develop your own hypotheses you can.

I don't see any difference between science and the Bible (in your own words), well except the fact that Bible did give me answers where science just gave me more questions ( I don't think that there is anything wrong with asking questions, it is required to understand the Bible properly

And don't take anything as given, that's the point of science. It's a strive to understand the natural world. What's GIVEN and can't be changed is religious dogma.

...and this here is, if you don't mind me say it, very wrong. You have to admit that there are a lot of assumptions in scientific explanations, and they are derived from the fact that things are taken for granted (energy preservation law for example, although proven wrong in the lab, still is one of the corner stones of modern phisics)

There are more examples, but that opens up a lot of questions, and it would be strange to teach the kids in elementary school that we don't know much, whitch is the only truth.

[Iron Duck Designs]

God is quite the artistic...as for the goat heads or deer heads, I think it is a goat...lol...

as for the theories above...I think that man was created to appreciate and search out God in a way that angels and animals do not...Jesus woke up every morning and prayed and conversed with His Father to understand His will and His creation...I can not imagine waking up every morning and not have God to converse with, to feel the emotion of Love and relationship from the God who stitched me together in my mother's womb...the Father who created all of this for me to appreciate and talk to Him about...if you don't believe in Him, I guess you don't need Him...but I do.

I know that I have a God and Savior that died for me and I cannot imagine any day without His Love and Hand, I need Him to be there for me and my family, He is more than just the creator of the universe to me, He is my friend.

[Guest darkdan]

(energy preservation law for example, although proven wrong in the lab, still is one of the corner stones of modern phisics)

Do you have a link for this claim?

[vanja]

Here is one for the magnetic motor

It is very simple, everybody can make it at home. I used to play with things like that.

It works, even though it doesn't seem possible when you try to calculate it

And here is something more about it and more serious atempts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7qe_M

[Guest darkdan]

Here is one for the magnetic motor

It is very simple, everybody can make it at home. I used to play with things like that.

It works, even though it doesn't seem possible when you try to calculate it

And here is something more about it and more serious atempts

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efCelx7qe_M

So magnetism isn't a form of energy?

All they're doing is converting magnetism into kinetic energy very efficiently. Even that last video you linked says, "Using electromagnetic fields as fuel." I don't see how some 2 to 6 minute youtube videos disprove conservation of energy.

If the machines work, studying them may bring new insights into science.

[vanja]

Well the point is that even though transformation to kinetic energy is obvious, there is no decrease of the input (magnetic energy is still there and at the same potential as before and that is what is totaly against the energy conservation law, isn't it?)

My point is that there are so many things that we have to take for granted to be able to just partialy understand the world around us.

It seems to me that there is at least the same amount of faith necesery to believe some of the scientific "facts", as it is to believe in well thought creation.