Astronomy Picture of the Day

[Tint Artist]

Well the point is that even though transformation to kinetic energy is obvious, there is no decrease of the input (magnetic energy is still there and at the same potential as before and that is what is totaly against the energy conservation law, isn't it?)

My point is that there are so many things that we have to take for granted to be able to just partialy understand the world around us.

It seems to me that there is at least the same amount of faith necesery to believe some of the scientific "facts", as it is to believe in well thought creation.

Good point!!

[Guest darkdan]

Well the point is that even though transformation to kinetic energy is obvious, there is no decrease of the input (magnetic energy is still there and at the same potential as before and that is what is totaly against the energy conservation law, isn't it?)

My point is that there are so many things that we have to take for granted to be able to just partialy understand the world around us.

It seems to me that there is at least the same amount of faith necesery to believe some of the scientific "facts", as it is to believe in well thought creation.

No, because magnets don't last forever. They lose their strength. Thus energy conservation still intact. Of course, we may not fully understand magnetism yet, but that's the whole point of science to continue to try to understand it. Think of how much potential energy there is in a little bit of hydrogen fusing together, maybe there's more force from magnets then we think. They might be stronger than just something to hold a piece of paper on the fridge. If you think about even that, a magnet is fighting gravity and holding that piece of paper up, 24/7, for YEARS! How much energy would you have to expend to the same thing?

Science at least tries to understand the world around us instead of "God did it."

Because god(s) have been used to explain things we weren't able to explain since the beginning of recorded history. The day begins and ends because of god, the seasons were because of god, rain was because of god, death was because of god, illness was because of god.

Does science know everything? No. Are they at least trying and moving in the right direction? Yes. If we go with the other side and shy away from science we won't move forward as a society. We won't develop new technologies. The middle east is behind the rest of the world for exactly that point. Their religion prevented it.

Like I said before, what practical and useful applications and advancements can be derived from creation? Now what has physics given us? Nuclear weapons, nuclear power, nuclear medicine, just about anything engineered. So what's the harm with forwarding our advancement of theoretical physics other than it upsets you because it encroaches on your religious beliefs?

Is the big bang correct? I don't know. But it's the best working model and theory we have with evidence FOR IT (galaxies moving away from each other, etc).

[Tint Artist]

Well the point is that even though transformation to kinetic energy is obvious, there is no decrease of the input (magnetic energy is still there and at the same potential as before and that is what is totaly against the energy conservation law, isn't it?)

My point is that there are so many things that we have to take for granted to be able to just partialy understand the world around us.

It seems to me that there is at least the same amount of faith necesery to believe some of the scientific "facts", as it is to believe in well thought creation.

No, because magnets don't last forever. They lose their strength. Thus energy conservation still intact. Of course, we may not fully understand magnetism yet, but that's the whole point of science to continue to try to understand it. Think of how much potential energy there is in a little bit of hydrogen fusing together, maybe there's more force from magnets then we think. They might be stronger than just something to hold a piece of paper on the fridge. If you think about even that, a magnet is fighting gravity and holding that piece of paper up, 24/7, for YEARS! How much energy would you have to expend to the same thing?

Science at least tries to understand the world around us instead of "God did it."

Because god(s) have been used to explain things we weren't able to explain since the beginning of recorded history. The day begins and ends because of god, the seasons were because of god, rain was because of god, death was because of god, illness was because of god.

Does science know everything? No. Are they at least trying and moving in the right direction? Yes. If we go with the other side and shy away from science we won't move forward as a society. We won't develop new technologies. The middle east is behind the rest of the world for exactly that point. Their religion prevented it.

Like I said before, what practical and useful applications and advancements can be derived from creation? Now what has physics given us? Nuclear weapons, nuclear power, nuclear medicine, just about anything engineered. So what's the harm with forwarding our advancement of theoretical physics other than it upsets you because it encroaches on your religious beliefs?

Is the big bang correct? I don't know. But it's the best working model and theory we have with evidence FOR IT (galaxies moving away from each other, etc).

Dan have you ever wondered how everything in life is designed with a purpose behind it? The Earth is the right distance from the sun so it's not to hot or to cold, air to breathe for land creatures or water for sea creatures, or the miracle of birth, or each organ in our bodies functioning with a purpose so we can live! Do you really think a big bang just happened and all this just came about or could there have been a designer or creator of a magnitude in which we can't humanly comprehend?

[tintslut]

two variables in one equation is never good

[tint45]

Well the point is that even though transformation to kinetic energy is obvious, there is no decrease of the input (magnetic energy is still there and at the same potential as before and that is what is totaly against the energy conservation law, isn't it?)

My point is that there are so many things that we have to take for granted to be able to just partialy understand the world around us.

It seems to me that there is at least the same amount of faith necesery to believe some of the scientific "facts", as it is to believe in well thought creation.

No, because magnets don't last forever. They lose their strength. Thus energy conservation still intact. Of course, we may not fully understand magnetism yet, but that's the whole point of science to continue to try to understand it. Think of how much potential energy there is in a little bit of hydrogen fusing together, maybe there's more force from magnets then we think. They might be stronger than just something to hold a piece of paper on the fridge. If you think about even that, a magnet is fighting gravity and holding that piece of paper up, 24/7, for YEARS! How much energy would you have to expend to the same thing?

Science at least tries to understand the world around us instead of "God did it."

Because god(s) have been used to explain things we weren't able to explain since the beginning of recorded history. The day begins and ends because of god, the seasons were because of god, rain was because of god, death was because of god, illness was because of god.

Does science know everything? No. Are they at least trying and moving in the right direction? Yes. If we go with the other side and shy away from science we won't move forward as a society. We won't develop new technologies. The middle east is behind the rest of the world for exactly that point. Their religion prevented it.

Like I said before, what practical and useful applications and advancements can be derived from creation? Now what has physics given us? Nuclear weapons, nuclear power, nuclear medicine, just about anything engineered. So what's the harm with forwarding our advancement of theoretical physics other than it upsets you because it encroaches on your religious beliefs?

Is the big bang correct? I don't know. But it's the best working model and theory we have with evidence FOR IT (galaxies moving away from each other, etc).

For the sake of clarity, it should probably be pointed out that no one here seems specificly against the sciences, as your posts seem to frame the issue. As I've stated before, I'm hugely fascinated by quantum physics; I've (tried to) read several books about the subject - Hawking's A Brief History Of Time and Black Holes and Baby Universes and Other Essays. Hell, my wife got me The Idiot's Guide to Physics for Christmas (no offense ) because I can't even wrap my mind around the concept of space-time.

I'd also like to know who these religious knuckleheads you're referring to are that truly believe that only the Bible can explain all of time and creation. I don't mean offense but it sounds as though your views on the matter have been much derived from South Park and CNN.

What can be derived from "creation"? Assuming that you're referring to the stories, trumped up and sensationalized by the media, about various PTA Christian wonks with too much time on their hands, then no, nothing can be derived from that - other than my shame in being classed in the same species as them. Two things on that:

1. Since the media has picked up on such stories, the issue has of course been politicized; with the likes of Hannity and even Limbaugh (who I'd wager has less reverance for a higher power than any single member on this board) taking up the cause. If you're buying what these guys are saying, I hope you're not paying much because regardless of the state of things, these guys are always selling something. Consider saving the reciept. Regardless of which "side" one might take, if anyone takes this kind of sh!t seriously, well... it's a long road ahead, that's all I can say. How to Not Be a D-bag 101 is now out of session.
   
2. It is my strong contention that no one can do more harm to their own faith than the ones who believe it. Damage was done to the legacy of Christ not 100 years after his passing. From then until now history has documented great atrocities of those professing Christ. Sure, there are stories througout time of people of all religions doing honorable and righteous things, but who's got time for that? (Goes to show that the author of Ecclesiastes was on to something).
   

I question things both scientific and biblical actually, and in all cases it's because it might not quite square with me. Likewise in most cases I don't ever get a good answer. All in all, it's a rich stew and I know that many a physicist and many a religious leader can come close enough together to know that there's plenty of room for both science and God, should faith allow.

[tint45]

two variables in one equation is never good

I'd guess that even a single variable in an equation would be problematic.

[vanja]

Well the point is that even though transformation to kinetic energy is obvious, there is no decrease of the input (magnetic energy is still there and at the same potential as before and that is what is totaly against the energy conservation law, isn't it?)

My point is that there are so many things that we have to take for granted to be able to just partialy understand the world around us.

It seems to me that there is at least the same amount of faith necesery to believe some of the scientific "facts", as it is to believe in well thought creation.

No, because magnets don't last forever. They lose their strength. Thus energy conservation still intact.

Not really intact, I did my math when I was in college (electrical engineering), and I know a thing or two about physics too.

Of course, we may not fully understand magnetism yet, but that's the whole point of science to continue to try to understand it. Think of how much potential energy there is in a little bit of hydrogen fusing together, maybe there's more force from magnets then we think. They might be stronger than just something to hold a piece of paper on the fridge. If you think about even that, a magnet is fighting gravity and holding that piece of paper up, 24/7, for YEARS! How much energy would you have to expend to the same thing?

Science at least tries to understand the world around us instead of "God did it."

There is a big difference between the two questions "who did it?" and "how it's done?"

The answers do not neceserily exlude each other, don't you agree?

Because god(s) have been used to explain things we weren't able to explain since the beginning of recorded history. The day begins and ends because of god, the seasons were because of god, rain was because of god, death was because of god, illness was because of god.

I couldn't agree with you more on this, but the problem is or better was, that priests (people) in the "dark ages" tried to hide the truth from the rest of the world and have more power over them. That is why everything was in Latin, whitch nobody understood. That is what is happening in the middle east, and that is what a lot of scientists do.

Do the words "you can not understand this because you don't have enough education" sound familiar?

Does science know everything? No. Are they at least trying and moving in the right direction? Yes. If we go with the other side and shy away from science we won't move forward as a society. We won't develop new technologies. The middle east is behind the rest of the world for exactly that point. Their religion prevented it.

Like I said before, what practical and useful applications and advancements can be derived from creation? Now what has physics given us? Nuclear weapons, nuclear power, nuclear medicine, just about anything engineered. So what's the harm with forwarding our advancement of theoretical physics other than it upsets you because it encroaches on your religious beliefs?

Is the big bang correct? I don't know. But it's the best working model and theory we have with evidence FOR IT (galaxies moving away from each other, etc).

You see, religion (when I started believing) set me free (John 8:32), and it was only because I never believed what other people told me.

I used to have similar aproach as you have. I thought I knew what the Bible said because I looked what people who claim to be religious do. But reading the Bible for myself (and with the right attitude - I wanted to understand it) changed my view on it. Faith in God is not something restricting or something that doesn't alow you to learn and prosper. It is something that teaches you to respect the world around you because there is someone who made it. Science does not upset me, it actualy encourages my faith, because it helps me understand the ways that different processes around me are going on. There are not so many things that are being discovered and that are not allready used in the world around us. Science is just finding the ways for us to use those mechanisms also. Unfortunately sometimes they do it with no respect of the Creator or the creation and that is why we have environmental problems for example.

I have to run now, it takes me to much time to talk about this in english, but I hope we could continue this discusion.

[Iron Duck Designs]

Well the point is that even though transformation to kinetic energy is obvious, there is no decrease of the input (magnetic energy is still there and at the same potential as before and that is what is totaly against the energy conservation law, isn't it?)

My point is that there are so many things that we have to take for granted to be able to just partialy understand the world around us.

It seems to me that there is at least the same amount of faith necesery to believe some of the scientific "facts", as it is to believe in well thought creation.

No, because magnets don't last forever. They lose their strength. Thus energy conservation still intact.

Not really intact, I did my math when I was in college (electrical engineering), and I know a thing or two about physics too.

Of course, we may not fully understand magnetism yet, but that's the whole point of science to continue to try to understand it. Think of how much potential energy there is in a little bit of hydrogen fusing together, maybe there's more force from magnets then we think. They might be stronger than just something to hold a piece of paper on the fridge. If you think about even that, a magnet is fighting gravity and holding that piece of paper up, 24/7, for YEARS! How much energy would you have to expend to the same thing?

Science at least tries to understand the world around us instead of "God did it."

There is a big difference between the two questions "who did it?" and "how it's done?"

The answers do not neceserily exlude each other, don't you agree?

Because god(s) have been used to explain things we weren't able to explain since the beginning of recorded history. The day begins and ends because of god, the seasons were because of god, rain was because of god, death was because of god, illness was because of god.

I couldn't agree with you more on this, but the problem is or better was, that priests (people) in the "dark ages" tried to hide the truth from the rest of the world and have more power over them. That is why everything was in Latin, whitch nobody understood. That is what is happening in the middle east, and that is what a lot of scientists do.

Do the words "you can not understand this because you don't have enough education" sound familiar?

Does science know everything? No. Are they at least trying and moving in the right direction? Yes. If we go with the other side and shy away from science we won't move forward as a society. We won't develop new technologies. The middle east is behind the rest of the world for exactly that point. Their religion prevented it.

Like I said before, what practical and useful applications and advancements can be derived from creation? Now what has physics given us? Nuclear weapons, nuclear power, nuclear medicine, just about anything engineered. So what's the harm with forwarding our advancement of theoretical physics other than it upsets you because it encroaches on your religious beliefs?

Is the big bang correct? I don't know. But it's the best working model and theory we have with evidence FOR IT (galaxies moving away from each other, etc).

You see, religion (when I started believing) set me free (John 8:32), and it was only because I never believed what other people told me.

I used to have similar aproach as you have. I thought I knew what the Bible said because I looked what people who claim to be religious do. But reading the Bible for myself (and with the right attitude - I wanted to understand it) changed my view on it. Faith in God is not something restricting or something that doesn't alow you to learn and prosper. It is something that teaches you to respect the world around you because there is someone who made it. Science does not upset me, it actualy encourages my faith, because it helps me understand the ways that different processes around me are going on. There are not so many things that are being discovered and that are not allready used in the world around us. Science is just finding the ways for us to use those mechanisms also. Unfortunately sometimes they do it with no respect of the Creator or the creation and that is why we have environmental problems for example.

I have to run now, it takes me to much time to talk about this in english, but I hope we could continue this discusion.

well said, the Bible and what it says has been preverted and misrepresented now and throughout history. I do think, if you read it with an open mind and read it fully then you will understand God a bit better and understand that His Press Releases from certain "celebs" are not what God intended or said.

Jesus' enemies where the religious leaders of His time...not the doctors or the educated...His disiciples where tax men, fishermen, doctors...etc. Saul, later Paul, was a religious zealot who had been preverted by the teachings of the time, and God had to straighten him out. The priests and religious leaders had at even that point in time preverted and manipulated the Bible to force others to do their will and to feed of their ignorance of a God that truly loved them. That is why Jesus wanted each of us to search God out instead of just going on what others say the Bible says....and that is why God replaced the priests with Jesus...Jesus tore through the curtain separating us from God...no longer would we need a priest to talk to God for us...now we can anytime anywhere...an amazing bonus gift from Jesus.

DD, the Book of Job is really quite fasinating if you get time to read it...read it with an open mind as well, try to not let Limbaugh's God or CNN's God view, cloud the read...it is really fantastic...even the way that God responds to Job's questions...try not to judge the book or write it off until you have read the entire book, it is hard to understand at some points emotionally, because of God's actions in the beginning, but I think you will find it interesting...

Quick add for edit:

I was an archeological photographer for a couple of years before we started our biz and I used to ask God questions all the time about the Dinosaurs/History/Big Bang/creation theories...I was surronded by the super educated, double and triple doctorates, just an absolutely amazing group of intellegent people and none of them believed in God. They viewed it as a crutch of the feeble minded. So, I asked God, without stopping about all of these things, and God told me that I don't even understand Love, so how could I understand anything else. And once I understood Love, then He would reveal the deepest secrets...so you might think that is a cop out, but it gave me great comfort and purpose...I have been trying to understand Love ever since. It is quite the journey.

[TintDude]

I just came across this vid about problems with the big bang theory, some might enjoy seeing an alternative perspective on the subject.

[Guest filmslayer]

that was interesting and hit on several ???'s I have about big bang ....