Huper Optik X3 Ceramic

February 6, 2009

10$ says we never hear from wamatt again

Haha. You can post me that $10 thanks.

So anyway is HO Ceramic the ultimate home tint?

I don't trust individual installer in my area advice (since they aligned with the company they distributing for), obviously they gonna say there product is best.

The installers in my area nearly all use Sun Gard products.

It depends on what your needs are...

Do you want high heat rej?

Do you want low reflectivity?

Do you want glare control?

Do you need a film that will not corrode?

Do you want a dye free product?

Do you want a film that is NFRC Certified?

Do you want warranty coverage up to $2k per pane?

Do you want a film that does not have dyes and ceramics in the hardcoat?

Lastly, do you want a film that looks good? If so then have the Huper ppl install a sample and have the Sun Gard ppl install a sample and ask yourself which looks best on your home? The film that meets your needs and looks best is probably the ultimate for you.

Your next problem will then be, can the installer do a good job? Ask for references.

I care about glare, heat, and optical clarity in that order.

Here are the specs for single pane clear:

Ceramic 30

Glare Reduction=62%

Total Solar Energy Rejected=63%

Optical Clarity=Compare it on the glass and you make the call... it makes the grade -imo.

DREI

Glare Reduction=61%

Total Solar Energy Rejected=70%

Optical Clarity=Same as above.

These are low reflecting films, you can get more glare reduction and heat rejection from a film but it will typically be more reflective. Put em on the glass next to Sun Gard's and make the call. You will have to decide what is too reflective for your tastes, look at it during the day and at night. :hmmm

tintslut · February 6, 2009

10$ says we never hear from wamatt again

Haha. You can post me that $10 thanks.

So anyway is HO Ceramic the ultimate home tint?

I don't trust individual installer in my area advice (since they aligned with the company they distributing for), obviously they gonna say there product is best.

The installers in my area nearly all use Sun Gard products.

Post you 10$, Ill do better than that. Ill beat your film estimate by 250$.

:thumb

hoosierwindowtek · February 6, 2009

Wamatt,

I don't know where you are, but I'd look into a dealer for Johnson Window films.

Here's the specs on their Ceramic called Palisade:

FILM TYPE: Palisade 35, (which should be called 40)

IR REJECTION (NIR: 800-2500 nm): 78%

VISIBLE LIGHT TRANSMISSION: 42%

SOLAR ENERGY REJECTED: 55%

SHADING COEFFICIENT: .52

SOLAR HEAT GAIN COEFFICIENT: .45

VISIBLE LIGHT REFLECTION: 16%

SOLAR ENERGY ABSORBED: 48%

GLARE REDUCTION: 54%

Palisade is also a Multi-Layer film, just SLIGHTLY more reflective than the Huper, and it has the added benefit of a Dry Adhesive. Dry adhesives are generally considered to be longer lasting than pressure sensitive adhesives. It should cost a lot less than Huper, so why pay so much more for little added benefit? :thumb

The Huper specs for their Ceramic 40 are very similar:

http://www.huperoptik.com/ProductsX3.html

One more thing,

You said,

"The installers in my area nearly all use Sun Gard products."

Since the parent company that owns SunGard, Solamatrix, is also owned by one of the companies involved in Huper Optik, Novamatrix, you're actually looking at 2 different products from the same source, in a way.

Theoretically, since Huper is only sold to top shelf dealers and distributors, you'd be solid going with them. In practice, since they gave me the cold shoulder, they're definitely NOT selling to the top shelf dealer in my area. (that'd be me.)

February 6, 2009

Wamatt,
I don't know where you are, but I'd look into a dealer for Johnson Window films.

Here's the specs on their Ceramic called Palisade:

FILM TYPE: Palisade 35, (which should be called 40)

IR REJECTION (NIR: 800-2500 nm): 78%

VISIBLE LIGHT TRANSMISSION: 42%

SOLAR ENERGY REJECTED: 55%

SHADING COEFFICIENT: .52

SOLAR HEAT GAIN COEFFICIENT: .45

VISIBLE LIGHT REFLECTION: 16%

SOLAR ENERGY ABSORBED: 48%

GLARE REDUCTION: 54%

Palisade is also a Multi-Layer film, just SLIGHTLY more reflective than the Huper, and it has the added benefit of a Dry Adhesive. Dry adhesives are generally considered to be longer lasting than pressure sensitive adhesives. It should cost a lot less than Huper, so why pay so much more for little added benefit?

The Huper specs for their Ceramic 40 are very similar:

http://www.huperoptik.com/ProductsX3.html

Palisade 35 is over 40% more reflective than Huper Ceramic 30 and the Glare Reduction (Which was Wamatt's 1st priority) is only 54% compared to 63%. Nice try hossier.

Here's something to think about when someone tout's how long dry adhesive lasts. Yes, the bond to the glass is bomber but if the film is a multi-laminate, like Palisade is, then guess what kind of adhesive is holding the laminate layers together? Dry adhesive is no good if your laminate adhesive fails. :hmmm

February 6, 2009

their is a palisade 25%...lets not bring in reflectivity being that isnt one of his concerns from what he said

60% TSER

GLARE 73%

CLARITY good in my opinion

:thumb

hoosierwindowtek · February 6, 2009

Vclymer,

Wamatt may not know it, but You and I do...

Two films that have the same VLT are gonna have the same GLARE REDUCTION, which these do.

Furthermore, the Reflectivity difference small enough that I doubt ANYONE would be able to discern the difference unless the 2 products were literally side by side and even then only in certain lighting conditions.

So,

Nice Try back at ya. :thumb

As far as adhesive issues go, you're not going to convince me that it isn't better to have the mounting adhesive be dry. Even if the other laminations are PS, it's usually the mounting adhesive that is most critical longevity of the film.

If Dry adhesive weren't better, then why does Huper offer it on the Traditional Series?

http://www.huperoptikusa.com/products_traditional.cfm

February 6, 2009

Vclymer,
Wamatt may not know it, but You and I do...

Two films that have the same VLT are gonna have the same GLARE REDUCTION, which these do.

Furthermore, the Reflectivity difference small enough that I doubt ANYONE would be able to discern the difference unless the 2 products were literally side by side and even then only in certain lighting conditions.

So,

Nice Try back at ya.

As far as adhesive issues go, you're not going to convince me that it isn't better to have the mounting adhesive be dry. Even if the other laminations are PS, it's usually the mounting adhesive that is most critical longevity of the film.

If Dry adhesive weren't better, then why does Huper offer it on the Traditional Series?

http://www.huperoptikusa.com/products_traditional.cfm

The two films do not have the same VLT. Ceramic 30 is 30%vlt and Palisade 35 is 42%VLT. I checked the charts.

Huper Ceramics are thicker so the PS works better for adhesion. They could make it dry but a lot of ppl would want the PS too. And no... if your laminate adhesive is weak then the whole system is weak. I see delaminated JWF around here and it is the dry adhesive version, we take it off all the time. I'm not saying PS is better, both have their negatives and nothing is perfect on either...

I put the single-ply ceramic version right next to the multi-ply and the is a BIG difference. Since you don't have the multi-ply Huper C-30 I don't think you are in the position to make that assessment? :hmmm

I'd punt.

February 6, 2009

their is a palisade 25%...lets not bring in reflectivity being that isnt one of his concerns from what he said
60% TSER

GLARE 73%

CLARITY good in my opinion

What if Wamatt had a 72"x72" window? Could you do it in one piece? :hmmm

hoosierwindowtek · February 7, 2009

Vclimer,

As I mentioned in my post, I was comparing Huper ceramic 40 to Palisade 35 because the Palisade 35 is really 42% VLT.

They both have 42% VLT.

Admittedly, Palisade isn't available in a VLT equal to Huper 30, but my intent is to give the gentleman options that I'd consider reasonable without getting gouged in price.

Instead of being blinded by a name, I prefer to look at facts because I've had plenty of problems and heard about many more from other so-called "premium" or "exclusive" brands out there.

I'm not saying I've heard of problems with Huper, either. But, we pretty much all say in this business that every manufacturer has problems now and then.

But, you got up in my face with the "nice try" when I was offering a suggestion to someone else.

I'd probably think twice about putting any brand of ceramic on a 72" x 72" window, BTW.