Huper Optik X3 Ceramic

February 7, 2009

who want's a black film on the outside and a mirrior look on the inside

not sure how you install DR but the mirror goes on the outside dude.

you beat me to it... :hmmm ...but that is some funny stuff right there...black on the outside..and mirror on the inside... :nope :nono

hoosierwindowtek · February 7, 2009

I have a question.
So tell me this hoosier... two films that have a .45 SHGC, one is ceramic with a 52% SA and the other is a DR with 47%SA. Which one radiates the most heat inward?

It's a matter of physics... the more energy something absorbs, the more it is going to radiate.

A better example is comparing white out and blackout film.

both films have a SHGC of less than .30, but the blackout has a SA of around 90% while whiteout has a SA of 20% or less. Which do you think radiates the most heat inward?

Oh, and since most film performance numbers are based on 1/8" single pane clear glass, then it becomes even more of an issue on dual pane glass since the energy can't radiate outward as much.

Slick · February 7, 2009

dr 15 doesnt hold a candle to huppy optikal clarity I mean come on who want's a black film on the outside and a mirrior look on the inside

:gasp

who want's a black film on the outside and a mirrior look on the inside

not sure how you install DR but the mirror goes on the outside dude.

:drevil wait...are you trying to tell libby that DR is not an exterior film?? :lol2 :rollin

February 7, 2009

I have a question.
So tell me this hoosier... two films that have a .45 SHGC, one is ceramic with a 52% SA and the other is a DR with 47%SA. Which one radiates the most heat inward?

It's a matter of physics... the more energy something absorbs, the more it is going to radiate.

A better example is comparing white out and blackout film.

both films have a SHGC of less than .30, but the blackout has a SA of around 90% while whiteout has a SA of 20% or less. Which do you think radiates the most heat inward?

Oh, and since most film performance numbers are based on 1/8" single pane clear glass, then it becomes even more of an issue on dual pane glass since the energy can't radiate outward as much.

See you are not answering the question again. A better example is not needed because we are not discussing blackout film and white film hoosier. How do you know this guy has dual pane glass? Actually that wouldn't matter, I could pose the same question with dual pane glass too and you wouldn't answer it, you would just change the issue. Talk about blindness, I guess it doesn't just happen with film brands. :drevil

TintJunkie · February 7, 2009

February 7, 2009

in all my years I've NEVER had a customer complain of clarity. therefore....it's not a concern of mine.

In all my years I never thought I would hear a term called "low angle haze" until customers started to complain about it. Now it is a common industry term. :rollin

hoosierwindowtek · February 7, 2009

I have a question.
So tell me this hoosier... two films that have a .45 SHGC, one is ceramic with a 52% SA and the other is a DR with 47%SA. Which one radiates the most heat inward?

It's a matter of physics... the more energy something absorbs, the more it is going to radiate.

A better example is comparing white out and blackout film.

both films have a SHGC of less than .30, but the blackout has a SA of around 90% while whiteout has a SA of 20% or less. Which do you think radiates the most heat inward?

Oh, and since most film performance numbers are based on 1/8" single pane clear glass, then it becomes even more of an issue on dual pane glass since the energy can't radiate outward as much.

See you are not answering the question again. A better example is not needed because we are not discussing blackout film and white film hoosier. How do you know this guy has dual pane glass? Actually that wouldn't matter, I could pose the same question with dual pane glass too and you wouldn't answer it, you would just change the issue. Talk about blindness, I guess it doesn't just happen with film brands.

Dude, I don't know how much clearer I can be!

In your example, the ceramic with the higher absorption is, by definition, going to radiate more heat inward!

Just because you accuse me of not answering the question doesn't mean I didn't answer it!

My physics teacher always said the best way to undertand physical phenomena is to take an example to extremes, which I did, to prove my point and you're just

acting like I'm avoiding the issue. WOW!

February 7, 2009

Let’s not be extreme, let’s be relative. You cited C-40 compared to PD-35… that is what would be installed on a typical residential window, not blackout or whiteout film, right?

Both films have a .45 SHGC so they transmit the same amount of energy (45% transmission). They obviously have different SA #’s so according to your theory the higher SA is transmitting more energy (heat) to the interior. Since the Solar Heat Gain Coefficient (SHGC) accounts for energy transmission (energy radiated inward), why is it that two films with different SA’s have the exact same SHGC of .45? Shouldn’t the higher absorbing film have a higher SHGC?

February 8, 2009

Let’s not be extreme, let’s be relative. You cited C-40 compared to PD-35… that is what would be installed on a typical residential window, not blackout or whiteout film, right?
Both films have a .45 SHGC so they transmit the same amount of energy (45% transmission). They obviously have different SA #’s so according to your theory the higher SA is transmitting more energy (heat) to the interior. Since the Solar Heat Gain Coefficient (SHGC) accounts for energy transmission (energy radiated inward), why is it that two films with different SA’s have the exact same SHGC of .45? Shouldn’t the higher absorbing film have a higher SHGC?

Now type that again in English please vdiddy :drevil

hoosierwindowtek · February 8, 2009

Let’s not be extreme, let’s be relative. You cited C-40 compared to PD-35… that is what would be installed on a typical residential window, not blackout or whiteout film, right?
Both films have a .45 SHGC so they transmit the same amount of energy (45% transmission). They obviously have different SA #’s so according to your theory the higher SA is transmitting more energy (heat) to the interior. Since the Solar Heat Gain Coefficient (SHGC) accounts for energy transmission (energy radiated inward), why is it that two films with different SA’s have the exact same SHGC of .45? Shouldn’t the higher absorbing film have a higher SHGC?

First, let me start with the fact that I'm at a bit of a loss about the SHGC and SA of C-40 film because as far as I can find on the internet Huper doesn't publish those numbers. I understand that since Huper publishes a SC of .53 for C-40 you can multiply that number times .86 to arrive at approximately .46 for SHGC They don't publish enough info for the SA numbers to be extrapolated as far as I can tell, but if you want to help me out with that I'd appreciate it.

Second, I agree that SHGC is supposed to be a measurement of heat gain that includes the portion that is absorbed and re-radiated inward. Ideally, two different films with the same SHGC would be equally effective at all times. In reality, this is not true. Because SHGC involves both reflected Solar energy and absorbed solar energy, it is possible to have a SHGC that is equal for two films but where the reflectivity is high and absorption is low on one and reflectivity is low and absorption is high on the other. Most likely, the more reflective PD-35 film would have the lower SA of the two.

There are two problems that can occur as a result of the low reflectivity/high absorption film...

A) In a real world situation in a modern building or home the indoor air temperature is cooler than the outdoor air temperature during warmer months. Since warmer months are when solar heat gain is a greater problem, and since conductive heat travels in the direction of lower energy, a highly absorptive window that is being heated by the sun will conduct more of the heat inwardly than it will outwardly when indoor air temperature is lower.

Diagram A: When it is warmer outside, glass will conduct heat towards the inside surface.

Diagram B: Conversely, glass will conduct heat to the outside surface when it is cooler outside.

B)The problem is further increased with dual-pane glass because the airspace between the panes causes the convection effect to be reduced. The heat in the inner piece of glass cannot move toward the outside air because the airspace and second piece of glass insulates it from the outside air, so instead it is convected toward the inside of the building.

Since the performance specifications published by manufacturers typically is based on readings taken from the film on 1/8" clear glass, it's important for both the actual glass being installed on and the prevailing climate to be taken into account. It's not a "theory" that a film with a higher SA would often be transmitting more energy (heat) to the interior, it's a fact.