Expel Ultimate or wait for Nano?

August 31, 2011

Just FYI, if you really want to test how well the film can be cleaned, and not haze the clear coat in the process, it would be better to use the right product. Alcohol is a solvent, and therefore will remove most stains, but because Ultimate has an automotive clear coat on it, alcohol is not the best product for the test. Use an automotive bug and tar remover instead. Xylene based products such as this work better with the chemistry of the clear coat and won't cause any damage. It will also take off anything you get on it. It's kinda like how you could use battery acid on your car's clear coat to get a bug stain off, but it wouldn't matter much because you would destroy the paint in the process ;)
Hope this helps.

I'll do a few more tests with some different cleaners to see how it reacts. I think its a bit misleading to say the Xpel uses automotive clear, real automotive clear that has been cured with a catalyst does not react to most solvents especially not Isopropyl. However Isopropyl will spear a clearcoat finish applied with a rattle can!

It is not misleading if it's true, and it is true. Not all clear coats are cured with a catalyst.

August 31, 2011

True from the factory clearcoats are baked on. A body shop uses a 2 part urethane the second part being the hardener or catalyst. Both finish are highly resistant to solvents and would never be damaged by alcohol. Anyways I don't think a ppf should not mimic clearcoat, but provide complementing properties that protect real clearcoat from its weaknesses such as scratching & chipping .

Sense the ultimate uses automotive clear I should be able wetsand it and polish to remove the scratches then right?

August 31, 2011

True from the factory clearcoats are baked on. A body shop uses a 2 part urethane the second part being the hardener or catalyst. Both finish are highly resistant to solvents and would never be damaged by alcohol. Anyways I don't think a ppf should not mimic clearcoat, but provide complementing properties that protect real clearcoat from its weaknesses such as scratching & chipping .
Sense the ultimate uses automotive clear I should be able wetsand it and polish to remove the scratches then right?

Yes, though not necessary. The formula uses elastomeric polymers that find their own level. No need to polish it to remove scratches unless it is something very deep.

September 1, 2011

Roger, after your comments about the alcohol, I decided to run a test on Ultimate vs Nano just to see if I could duplicate what you were seeing. And although I still maintain that you should use a different product to clean our film since the chemistry is completely different, I could not duplicate the results you found. In fact, I got exactly the opposite result.

We applied Nano and Ultimate to the windshield of an SUV (didn't have any Lexan around) to duplicate the test you conducted as closely as possible. Ultimate is on the right, Nano is on the left. We videoed everything in real time with no cut aways so that you could see exactly what was done. As a result, you will see some installation fluid haze still under the films as we did not give them time to dry before starting the test. We used 100% pure alcohol for the test which we keep on hand to mix drying solutions in our training classes, design and installation operations.

The point of the video below is NOT to detract from Avery's product. It is a fine product and will do well on any vehicle. Other than the self-healing properties of Ultimate, I feel the products are quite nicely matched to one another. After all, a test of this nature is not at all real world unless you hit a truck filled with Sharpies, right? I just wonder if you got the samples switched? They do look very similar. Then again, maybe there is something wrong with the sample of Nano I have. It has been sitting around the office for over a year and it is quite common in a product this complicated to produce to have variance from one batch to another. Maybe there is a shelf life? To make sure, I have a full roll of current product on the way and will retest once I have it. Once again, just to be completely fair, I have seen the ink clean off of Nano many times without a trace, so I am not sure why it was different this time. My point isn't really what Nano did, but what ours did. Also, I found that spraying a common detail spray on the films and wiping them down afterwards cleaned off the residue that was left on the Nano, so I don't think that is an issue at all.

In summary, I think you would do fine with either product. They are both on the cutting edge of film technology today.

http://xpelmedia.blob.core.windows.net/vid...ltimate_768.wmv

Carmeltinting.com · September 1, 2011

Suggestion...

Next time put the cameraman IN the car. Or film against a light cream interior.

It was hard to make out just what you guys were trying to accomplish :twocents

September 1, 2011

Sorry. Was trying to duplicate the perspective of the pics Roger posted. Next one I do will be on paint anyway. Will do one on white, one on black.

September 1, 2011

well maybe I need to take a video because that isn't really what I did. The main problem is you let the sharpie set of less then a minute. I let it sit about 10 minutes and trust me its not going to come off as easily. Its while scrubbing at sharpie spots that the film starts to break down, you might has well of put dry erase marker in your video it just wiped off. Actually forget the sharpie just take the alcohol and pick a spot and rub at it like your pre treating a stained piece of clothing. The Ultimate started to cloud and smear and the surface became extremely rubbery, but honestly I could rub all day on the nano it felt like glass the whole time and never scratched. I'll see if I can make a video this weekend.

September 3, 2011

well maybe I need to take a video because that isn't really what I did. The main problem is you let the sharpie set of less then a minute. I let it sit about 10 minutes and trust me its not going to come off as easily. Its while scrubbing at sharpie spots that the film starts to break down, you might has well of put dry erase marker in your video it just wiped off. Actually forget the sharpie just take the alcohol and pick a spot and rub at it like your pre treating a stained piece of clothing. The Ultimate started to cloud and smear and the surface became extremely rubbery, but honestly I could rub all day on the nano it felt like glass the whole time and never scratched. I'll see if I can make a video this weekend.

Ok, Roger. I've done another video today to answer your concerns. Not only that, to be sure that it is completely clear whether or not the ink was removed completely, I did the test on the full XPEL Ultimate hood protection on my own white R8 so that any residue of black in would be completely obvious. If you look closely at the light reflections, you will also see any effects the alcohol would have played on the clear coat. We even added in another test that was mentioned earlier in the thread so that there is no question whether or not our clear coat works as advertised.

If there is any remaining doubt whether or not the product is as good as we say, we will address it next week during our Dealer Conference where about 70 independent paint protection installers (some install our film, some install others including Nano) will be in San Antonio to see what our film can do. If there is something I am not doing that you would like to see, please let me know. I am not scared to test the film against ANY harmful chemical/compound you can name in any way you want to see it. I will do it at the conference in front of the entire crowd and video the results. I'm sure the installers will convey their thoughts on the film good or bad.

http://www.xpel.com/media/video/r8_ultimate_test.wmv

September 3, 2011

Looks good Tim definitely Kudos for doing it on your own car! Its a good video you definitely have confidence in your product, unless secretly you have nano installed ;) I'm going to be honest I cant really see the finish of the film but briefly in the areas the overhead lights hit the surface. Just like when your polishing you need a big halogen light setup shinning on the surface to see all the swirls. None the less I just think i was being too aggressive with the film when I was rubbing it which is probably not a fair test. Like I said I was rubbing back and fourth in a small 1"x1" area. Anyways I will try it again this weekend with the other piece of film I guess its possible I didn't get the best sample? Dependent on my results I really do want this film to be all you say its, I'm just ready to get something installed!

Question, the Warranty is for 7 year against yellowing right? Does that cover labor to have it reinstalled?

Clearbraj · September 3, 2011

Looks good Tim definitely Kudos for doing it on your own car! Its a good video you definitely have confidence in your product, unless secretly you have nano installed ;) I'm going to be honest I cant really see the finish of the film but briefly in the areas the overhead lights hit the surface. Just like when your polishing you need a big halogen light setup shinning on the surface to see all the swirls. None the less I just think i was being too aggressive with the film when I was rubbing it which is probably not a fair test. Like I said I was rubbing back and fourth in a small 1"x1" area. Anyways I will try it again this weekend with the other piece of film I guess its possible I didn't get the best sample? Dependent on my results I really do want this film to be all you say its, I'm just ready to get something installed!
Question, the Warranty is for 7 year against yellowing right? Does that cover labor to have it reinstalled?

Tim: There's no satisfying this guy.

Your customer service and willingness to not only test your products but videoing them and placing them on this forum is exceptional. No other manufacturer has done this. Kudos to you and your XPEL team. We have tested this film during love bug season and passed with flying colors, gloss and care are bar none. This material ranks up with 3M and Nano and is light years ahead of your standard/pre films. Good to know there is a Company dedicated to being the best and focused on the PPF industry.