How would you splice?

suntint · August 31, 2011

They are not likely to change the film spec.

Tell the GC you need the width measurements, and if it's truly over 60" then seams are needed. Recommend to the GC how you want to seam, but tell them you need their input/approval on seam location before it's done. With ground level windows horizontal seams would be close to eye level, so I'd again recommend vertical seams. If you can do it with a full 60" piece and then 2" strips you may be use scraps leftover from other windows. Use same roll for the 2" strips as for the 60" pieces - and match sides.

August 31, 2011

Most don't have the right machine for 72" ceramic and they don't want to drop the $$$ for a new one.

Poor excuse. ... valid, but poor.

1st, are these windows groud level or higher? If they are upper, put a horizontal seam to the top, grond level, put it at the bottom, will be less visible since it will be well below eye level. Verticle seams are highly noticeable. Also, I prefer to overlap, since it makes a stronger seam. Butt seams will more than likely seperate over time as the film ages. What area is this in? do you need to head north or south>

These two are ground level. .. if I do a horizontal seem at the bottom it would be about 3 feet off the ground.

And I'll be heading north.

So, if you do a horizontal strip at the top it would not be as visible?

Old-school method is just that which "customtinting" posted. It's an illusion thing where someone would need to really stare to notice a seam. But, it will seperate over time!

Most customers understand, as they want the film for heat reduction, etc... But, what's the big deal of using another supplier of film? Adjust based on your customers' need?

August 31, 2011

there is a 72'' mac 3000 but it does not match the 60'' mac 3000 from my understanding. Have fun installing that film too!

Customtinting · August 31, 2011

Most don't have the right machine for 72" ceramic and they don't want to drop the $$$ for a new one.

Poor excuse. ... valid, but poor.

1st, are these windows groud level or higher? If they are upper, put a horizontal seam to the top, grond level, put it at the bottom, will be less visible since it will be well below eye level. Verticle seams are highly noticeable. Also, I prefer to overlap, since it makes a stronger seam. Butt seams will more than likely seperate over time as the film ages. What area is this in? do you need to head north or south>

These two are ground level. .. if I do a horizontal seem at the bottom it would be about 3 feet off the ground.

And I'll be heading north.

So, if you do a horizontal strip at the top it would not be as visible?

Old-school method is just that which "customtinting" posted. It's an illusion thing where someone would need to really stare to notice a seam. But, it will seperate over time!

Most customers understand, as they want the film for heat reduction, etc... But, what's the big deal of using another supplier of film? Adjust based on your customers' need?

If I may ask, what do you consider 'old school'? Positioning a horizontal seam on the lower portion of the window will leave a clean view at eye level, and as Roach stated, it will be 3 feet off the ground. So, unless you are a munchkin, the seam is less visible when looking out the window. A verticle seam will be completely visible mot matter where you are lookin. Also, overlapping is the wisest way to go with 60%, since the film is much lighter and an overlap seam will be less noticeable. Butt seaming is tough to get a perfect matchup and, as man have stated, will sperate overtime. When my name is on a job, I would rather have a slight overlap (1/8 - 1/4") that doesnt seperate, than have a customer seeing that light gap in a short time. I have butt seamed before, and have seen them open up within 3-6 months. This looks like garbage and can have GC's turning away from using us in the furture. I have always found that the end user has no problem with a very small overlap seam. And , generally, many window we do have mullions on or between the glas that make hiding it very easy.

August 31, 2011

Most don't have the right machine for 72" ceramic and they don't want to drop the $$$ for a new one.

Poor excuse. ... valid, but poor.

1st, are these windows groud level or higher? If they are upper, put a horizontal seam to the top, grond level, put it at the bottom, will be less visible since it will be well below eye level. Verticle seams are highly noticeable. Also, I prefer to overlap, since it makes a stronger seam. Butt seams will more than likely seperate over time as the film ages. What area is this in? do you need to head north or south>

These two are ground level. .. if I do a horizontal seem at the bottom it would be about 3 feet off the ground.

And I'll be heading north.

So, if you do a horizontal strip at the top it would not be as visible?

Old-school method is just that which "customtinting" posted. It's an illusion thing where someone would need to really stare to notice a seam. But, it will seperate over time!

Most customers understand, as they want the film for heat reduction, etc... But, what's the big deal of using another supplier of film? Adjust based on your customers' need?

If I may ask, what do you consider 'old school'? Positioning a horizontal seam on the lower portion of the window will leave a clean view at eye level, and as Roach stated, it will be 3 feet off the ground. So, unless you are a munchkin, the seam is less visible when looking out the window. A verticle seam will be completely visible mot matter where you are lookin. Also, overlapping is the wisest way to go with 60%, since the film is much lighter and an overlap seam will be less noticeable. Butt seaming is tough to get a perfect matchup and, as man have stated, will sperate overtime. When my name is on a job, I would rather have a slight overlap (1/8 - 1/4") that doesnt seperate, than have a customer seeing that light gap in a short time. I have butt seamed before, and have seen them open up within 3-6 months. This looks like garbage and can have GC's turning away from using us in the furture. I have always found that the end user has no problem with a very small overlap seam. And , generally, many window we do have mullions on or between the glas that make hiding it very easy.

I apologize....misunderstanding!

"Old-school" meaning splicing. Vertical/horizontal. Most people today seem to go with the latest, best possible look/method(s). I.e using the widest film possible for the job. In the past, people would simply splice just about anyhting...That's all I was trying to say. Some have implied to me that splicing is almost unprofessional. But every job/window is a special case. So, like you mentioned, if there are window coverings or the like, no one will ever see a splice. I'm all for splicing, when appropriate.

That's all...

vquestfilms.com · August 31, 2011

Most don't have the right machine for 72" ceramic and they don't want to drop the $$$ for a new one.

Poor excuse. ... valid, but poor.

Roach I understand your frustration but I think you have to look at it from a MFG standpoint. Investing a lot of capital into a specialty machine needs to have a return on investment. These machines are very expensive, so is the real estate that you need to purchase or lease to house the machinery, inventory, raw material, etc. So you have to look at how much of a 72" ceramic market is there, how much machine time will it take to feed that market, how much time is left over and what can you do with that machine during downtime (is there customers you can produce for)... these are critical questions that need answers because the bank will not loan a dollar to you unless you have answers to these and many more questions.

So look at the US window film market. What is it $500 million? How much of that is 72" ceramic? How long will it take to pay off a 72" sputtering machine?

This is a valid excuse in the eyes of some MFG's, they just can't afford to do it. The numbers don't add up.

vquestfilms.com · August 31, 2011

Well, if you are good at splicing you can make that sucker practically disappear with 60vlt film.

:lol You seemed to miss my splice on my C-40 pic and that was a big one.

:lol I feel like I'm getting hazed here, no worries though I'll push back. First, I said "avoid splicing at all costs" then Roach said he had no option, the customer doesn't seem to care about. Under that circumstance and against all professional preference you can splice MAC 60 and out of all of the MAC line a well-done splice on 60% vlt film will probably never be noticed by most people who are not window tinters.

The irony is that there is 72" ceramic 60 but due to the intricacies of business he can't get his hands on it so thus the need for a splice. A sad reality...

there is a 72'' mac 3000 but it does not match the 60'' mac 3000 from my understanding. Have fun installing that film too!

:lol good to know

Fiveofeen · August 31, 2011

Great thread.

Rob, I enjoy all of your posts as they are very informative and professional yet you still manage to be yourself on here.

Quick question, I was researching NFRC certified films and noticed that Huper Ceramic 60 and the new 70 are not yet certified products. Are there plans to get these films added to the library for Southwall Technologies in the near future?

:beer

vquestfilms.com · August 31, 2011

Great thread.
Rob, I enjoy all of your posts as they are very informative and professional yet you still manage to be yourself on here.

Quick question, I was researching NFRC certified films and noticed that Huper Ceramic 60 and the new 70 are not yet certified products. Are there plans to get these films added to the library for Southwall Technologies in the near future?

Thanks Tim. C-70 is brand new and a totally different animal, it's in patent process right now not sure what their NFRC plans are, we're pushing for it. C-60, I have no idea why they didn't do that one... :beer

MikeMN · August 31, 2011

Well, if you are good at splicing you can make that sucker practically disappear with 60vlt film.

You seemed to miss my splice on my C-40 pic and that was a big one.

I feel like I'm getting hazed here, no worries though I'll push back. First, I said "avoid splicing at all costs" then Roach said he had no option, the customer doesn't seem to care about. Under that circumstance and against all professional preference you can splice MAC 60 and out of all of the MAC line a well-done splice on 60% vlt film will probably never be noticed by most people who are not window tinters.

The irony is that there is 72" ceramic 60 but due to the intricacies of business he can't get his hands on it so thus the need for a splice. A sad reality...

there is a 72'' mac 3000 but it does not match the 60'' mac 3000 from my understanding. Have fun installing that film too!

good to know