Got my posts deleted on another forum

micro-edge · October 3, 2011

The rule of thumb has always been this; If you report IR, then it is assumed you are measuring the whole NIR spectrum (780-2500nm) unless you otherwise specify.

Hi VQ,

I am of the impression that you are well connected within that organization, so please double check me on this:

I do not think they are referring to the entire spectrum from 780-2500. Here is the reason:

There are multiple large gaps within that full range (780-2500) where no IR radiation at all reaches the earth. One gap is approximately 1300-1400nm and another even larger one is near 1800-1950nm. These gaps correspond to H20 absorption bands (where atmospheric moisture filters those particular wavelengths).

If in fact they are measuring the entire spectrum, then they are reporting that they block radiation that is not even present at the earths surface. It does not seem likely. Not impossible, but not likely.

Perhaps you can find out and let me know.

-Howard

Vclimber always insisted that huper was measuring the entire spectrum, but like you i've never seen it documented..

EWF · October 3, 2011

Hi VQ,

I agree. SC is the right parameter for single pane. SHGC is for dual pane. There is a direct relationship (SHGC = SC X 0.85).

TSEr measures the energy coming off the outward facing surface. It is of little relevancy to anyone inside a car or inside a building.

If you are inside the car (or the building) SC/SHGC is what counts.

If you ever get a client that wants to heat the air outside their car or their building, look at TSEr.

-Howard

vquestfilms.com · October 3, 2011

The rule of thumb has always been this; If you report IR, then it is assumed you are measuring the whole NIR spectrum (780-2500nm) unless you otherwise specify.

Hi VQ,

I am of the impression that you are well connected within that organization, so please double check me on this:

I do not think they are referring to the entire spectrum from 780-2500. Here is the reason:

There are multiple large gaps within that full range (780-2500) where no IR radiation at all reaches the earth. One gap is approximately 1300-1400nm and another even larger one is near 1800-1950nm. These gaps correspond to H20 absorption bands (where atmospheric moisture filters those particular wavelengths).

If in fact they are measuring the entire spectrum, then they are reporting that they block radiation that is not even present at the earths surface. It does not seem likely. Not impossible, but not likely.

Perhaps you can find out and let me know.

-Howard

Howard,

That is a good question. It not only affects your averages in IR but it also throws TSER #'s in your favor because you are claiming to filter energy that is already being filtered. Another good example is UVB, most is filtered by glass so are we really rejecting 99.xx% or would it be better and more accurate to report what you allow to transmit? Thus my whole frustration with the term "rejection."

I have an idea what the answer is but I would feel more comfortable checking first. Then I need to take care not to be presumptuous post something that I may not have clearance to publish. I'm sure you understand, as a business owner you probably have policies on what your employees can and cannot discuss? I have to respect similar boundaries as well. :lol

vquestfilms.com · October 3, 2011

Vclimber always insisted that huper was measuring the entire spectrum, but like you i've never seen it documented..

Check their new C-70 parameter sheet. They document it there.

Fiveofeen · October 3, 2011

And this is why I prefer to use SC and SHGC. While I do like the discussion of the solar spectrum and educating those on this forum I think its important to point out how a discussion on infrared heat performance specifications can be confusing and or misleading even to those within the industry. Do others worry that an end user could potentially be so confused by this marketing tactic that it could in fact hurt the sale?

EWF · October 3, 2011

Granted, all businesses have proprietary knowledge.

However, when it comes to reporting data which consumers and professionals rely upon to make purchasing decisions, there should not be any ambiguity as to how the readings were taken and what exactly was measured.

Those EDTM in-the-field BTU meters do an excellent job and cover about 300-1100nm (where 90% of the energy is). I would use them in daylight conditions however, as some posters have suggested that using bulbs does not cover the whole range. It is a slight handicap, in that you have to do your sales presentations on sunny days. In the quest to find the best performer at the best price, it is worth it in my opinion.

-Howard

Vclimber always insisted that huper was measuring the entire spectrum, but like you i've never seen it documented..

Check their new C-70 parameter sheet. They document it there.

Got link?

Thanks.

Vclimber always insisted that huper was measuring the entire spectrum, but like you i've never seen it documented..

Check their new C-70 parameter sheet. They document it there.

Got link?

Thanks.

vquestfilms.com · October 3, 2011

Granted, all businesses have proprietary knowledge.
However, when it comes to reporting data which consumers and professionals rely upon to make purchasing decisions, there should not be any ambiguity as to how the readings were taken and what exactly was measured.

Those EDTM in-the-field BTU meters do an excellent job and cover about 300-1100nm (where 90% of the energy is). I would use them in daylight conditions however, as some posters have suggested that using bulbs does not cover the whole range. It is a slight handicap, in that you have to do your sales presentations on sunny days. In the quest to find the best performer at the best price, it is worth it in my opinion.

-Howard

Howard,

I understand and share your feelings on accuracy. However, it is not my job I don't make the call on what is published and how it gets published. I'm sure you have contacts in Asia, why do they choose to measure low intensity IR wavelengths and not the high intensity ones?

In your example of using an EDTM meter, is this entirely accurate? I see ambiguity here as well. You are suggesting putting a limited crystalline silicon cell in a typical meter up against a very powerful spectrophotometer used to take individual wavelength measurements with much more precision.

Vclimber always insisted that huper was measuring the entire spectrum, but like you i've never seen it documented..

Check their new C-70 parameter sheet. They document it there.

Got link?

Thanks.

No, I have a performance data sheet aka- spec card.

EWF · October 3, 2011

And this is why I prefer to use SC and SHGC.

Hi TG,

We should all be using SC & SHGC. That's what the NFRC uses and that's what the IWFA recommends.

-Howard

Felixbiel · October 3, 2011

This is exactly what I was looking for, to have a conversation back and forth with Tritek, Just like yall are doing right now. Instead I got jumped. I must have touched a nerve.

The ///Man · October 3, 2011

This is exactly what I was looking for, to have a conversation back and forth with Tritek, Just like yall are doing right now. Instead I got jumped. I must have touched a nerve.

You are talking tint issues on a car forum. Not a lot of people care to discuss the engineering behind window films on a car forum.