FormulaOne or 3M?

[Blackwolftinting]

Well what about the whole rebox issue? Is there any truth to that? I know a lot of film companies do it. And in all honesty I can understand why they would do it...but just with a giant name like 3M it always puzzled me.

[Tintguy1980]

 

 

 

Do not question 3m while ultra is here, rookie mistake :P.

 

 

LOL.    

 

 

It's common to see a lot of anti-3M posts in these threads and in the industry in general. Most is hear-say and much of it comes from people who are either A: Trying to sell another brand. or B: Object to spending the extra money that it costs to use it over the cheaper, more readily available brands out there. I personally like 3M films, not because of the extra cost, or the extra money I can charge for it, but because I have a good understanding of the technologies and processes involved in their manufacturing processes. They are more expensive, but the stuff actually does work. Customer confidence in the brand is high, and if you use it and promote it, customers will often seek YOU out to get it. Many out there form an opinion based on their "experience" with the film. It's probably safe to say that they tried the bottom of the range FX ST because the others were too expensive. Every manny has their top range and their entry level product lines. Personally, I will only ever look at the top one or two products from any manufacturer, because everything below that is a quality and performance compromise to meet a certain price point in the market. (IE: corners cut = money saved) Or, they have tried the Crystalline for example and found that it was expensive and too difficult to shrink or work with etc..  

 

Shops that choose the film they sell based on roll price and easiest installation, are simply whoring the industry for quick cash and don't genuinely have their customers best interests in mind.    

(you can forever quote me on that if you wish)  

 

I wasn't having a go at you personally. I was just pointing out that these threads often lead to fiery exchanges by the lovers and the haters. ( I know this because I may or may not have engaged in a few of them myself     )

 

What we can thank the M's for is developing the first patent on window films back in 1966, and many of the new technologies that have come along since.

MIKEMN or SMARTIE might be able to shed more light on this.

 

Well said indeed.

 

I have learned to stay out of this type a fray as it seems non-productive anymore. 

[Blackwolftinting]

I thought Madicos claim to fame was something along the lines of initial development or patenting too?

[MikeMN]

 

What we can thank the M's for is developing the first patent on window films back in 1966, and many of the new technologies that have come along since.

MIKEMN or SMARTIE might be able to shed more light on this.

 

 

Yes, 3M has the first Patent for window film " A Solar Reflecting Article " Filing Date Feb 8th 1965,  Publication Date  Dec 6 1966.

 

The real question everyone wants the answer to is, who was the first to make window film................ ?

[Guest Lqmac]

F1 is contractual, and exclusive. 3M is permission to sell, and if you do a good job selling but a prospect becomes interested close to you, there's the chance they sell to prospect too. I'd say there's more value and franchise type agreement with F1. They are both desirable and money makers.

In NC, there's a fairly good F1 dealer base, and more recently stronger 3M base, so there's recognition and customer following with each. What part of NC are you considering?

Charlotte!

[TintJunkie]

 

 

 

Do not question 3m while ultra is here, rookie mistake :P.

 

 

LOL.    

 

 

It's common to see a lot of anti-3M posts in these threads and in the industry in general. Most is hear-say and much of it comes from people who are either A: Trying to sell another brand. or B: Object to spending the extra money that it costs to use it over the cheaper, more readily available brands out there. I personally like 3M films, not because of the extra cost, or the extra money I can charge for it, but because I have a good understanding of the technologies and processes involved in their manufacturing processes. They are more expensive, but the stuff actually does work. Customer confidence in the brand is high, and if you use it and promote it, customers will often seek YOU out to get it. Many out there form an opinion based on their "experience" with the film. It's probably safe to say that they tried the bottom of the range FX ST because the others were too expensive. Every manny has their top range and their entry level product lines. Personally, I will only ever look at the top one or two products from any manufacturer, because everything below that is a quality and performance compromise to meet a certain price point in the market. (IE: corners cut = money saved) Or, they have tried the Crystalline for example and found that it was expensive and too difficult to shrink or work with etc..  

 

Shops that choose the film they sell based on roll price and easiest installation, are simply whoring the industry for quick cash and don't genuinely have their customers best interests in mind.    

(you can forever quote me on that if you wish)  

 

I wasn't having a go at you personally. I was just pointing out that these threads often lead to fiery exchanges by the lovers and the haters. ( I know this because I may or may not have engaged in a few of them myself     )

 

What we can thank the M's for is developing the first patent on window films back in 1966, and many of the new technologies that have come along since.

MIKEMN or SMARTIE might be able to shed more light on this.

 

I really like this post.  I can't remember the last time a 3M user has posted something as eloquent as yours in favor for that big red logo.....

but Im not gonna agree, so I'll bite instead.

 

Many of us have went ahead and posting in these threads negatively about the product with simple words like "it sucks" or "waste of money", and I happen to agree with your "A" and "B."

 

I dont recall reading a post where someone said the film doesn't work, or works good, as I too believe their films work very well.  Also, I haven't had a ton of "experience" installing their films, but I have installed a few thousand sq ft of it, and removed far more.

 

My gripe with 3M is their misleading marketing, in which they market very well...far better than any other mfg.  Who else puts an on angle (60 degree) test data number on their spec chart but 3M?  A test that isn't recognized in our industry as a standard testing method, and has also been documented with other films, that other films(if not all) perform better at that angle too.  I know 3M isn't the only one, but they also provide IR testing data (with that cute little star next to the number) showing insane IR rejecting...also not recognized in our industry as standard testing methods, and only measure where their film performs the best to achieve the number printed on the chart.  Huper does this as well, but uses the entire spectrum, and if the customer didn't know any better, they would see Huper as inferior, but Im not an advocate of Huper products either.

 

Now, MikeMN has told me the opposite of this, and I trust him as they have probably changed it, but I remember a time when 3M left out the liner, adhesive, and scratch coat layers on the sample placed in the spec chart.  The film looked beautiful in that little window.  However, the installed product looked different, as it had all the components of a finished film.  I haven't seen a 3M spec chart in a few years to see if they still do this, as, like I said, Mike told me its all there.

 

Additionally, there is nothing wrong with using something other than 3M.  To imply (in which you prob aren't) anything other than 3M is inferior isn't true.  There are far better films on the market that will do the same job, perform the same, and outlast 3M.

 

My opinion is, the only reason there are 3M dealers is because they are out to bait customers in based on name recognition and sell them a product based on false information to make an insanely large profit.  I say thats fine.  As per my opinion, who is whoring who out?

 

It reminds me of the saying, "do one job, and do it well."  The window film division of 3M makes up roughly 1% of 3M's total business.  Could they do it better, or continue to sling enough poop out there to where someone eventually steps in it?

 

School me Ultra.

[addicted to tint]

 

F1 is contractual, and exclusive. 3M is permission to sell, and if you do a good job selling but a prospect becomes interested close to you, there's the chance they sell to prospect too. I'd say there's more value and franchise type agreement with F1. They are both desirable and money makers.

In NC, there's a fairly good F1 dealer base, and more recently stronger 3M base, so there's recognition and customer following with each. What part of NC are you considering?

Charlotte!

 

The NC rep is from that area.  You should meet him and show him your plans.  You'd have a "gold mine" on Pinnacle sales alone...

[FBO]

I was told by 3m rep. That they are exclusive and permission as to new dealers. Which is something that I like, and thinking about. Still burns my a$$ that my supplier started selling to my competitor which is 100 yards away. Lulu said the same thing.

[MikeMN]

 

 

My gripe with 3M is their misleading marketing, in which they market very well...far better than any other mfg.  Who else puts an on angle (60 degree) test data number on their spec chart but 3M?  A test that isn't recognized in our industry as a standard testing method, and has also been documented with other films, that other films(if not all) perform better at that angle too.  I know 3M isn't the only one, but they also provide IR testing data (with that cute little star next to the number) showing insane IR rejecting...also not recognized in our industry as standard testing methods, and only measure where their film performs the best to achieve the number printed on the chart.  Huper does this as well, but uses the entire spectrum, and if the customer didn't know any better, they would see Huper as inferior, but Im not an advocate of Huper products either.

 

Now, MikeMN has told me the opposite of this, and I trust him as they have probably changed it, but I remember a time when 3M left out the liner, adhesive, and scratch coat layers on the sample placed in the spec chart.  The film looked beautiful in that little window.  However, the installed product looked different, as it had all the components of a finished film.  I haven't seen a 3M spec chart in a few years to see if they still do this, as, like I said, Mike told me its all there.

 

 

 

TintJunkie, Yes any film will perform better on angle and even glass with no film as well, is the sun always at a 90 degree on a window ........... ? 

 

Is 3M PR film NFRC Certified......... ?

 

BTW, I did not tell you all 3M sample cards have all the components, you said they did not, I showed you this, see pic below.

 

A 3M tint factoid for you, at on time all 3M films did not have a liner but rather an overcoat over the adhesive that would dissolve once wet exposing the adhesive ( with the exception of 2 3M films ) the film would have looked real good on a sample card   back then ....  , if you look at the pic of an older window film sample card that I had showed you, you will notice that the liner is cloudy and that is how all of the 3M liners used at that time looked, However you will see a difference soon regarding 3M window film sample cards and how they look.......

 

An older 3M window film sample card I had showed you awhile back.

 

So tell me, how did Madico window film work out for you ..........?.........  ............. and what are you selling now ......... ?

 

 ............. The company I work for has been installing 3M Window Film or for that matter,  Any window film longer than Anyone .......  ........3M must be doing something right !!!!

[Ocala]

 

 

 

My gripe with 3M is their misleading marketing, in which they market very well...far better than any other mfg.  Who else puts an on angle (60 degree) test data number on their spec chart but 3M?  A test that isn't recognized in our industry as a standard testing method, and has also been documented with other films, that other films(if not all) perform better at that angle too.  I know 3M isn't the only one, but they also provide IR testing data (with that cute little star next to the number) showing insane IR rejecting...also not recognized in our industry as standard testing methods, and only measure where their film performs the best to achieve the number printed on the chart.  Huper does this as well, but uses the entire spectrum, and if the customer didn't know any better, they would see Huper as inferior, but Im not an advocate of Huper products either.

 

Now, MikeMN has told me the opposite of this, and I trust him as they have probably changed it, but I remember a time when 3M left out the liner, adhesive, and scratch coat layers on the sample placed in the spec chart.  The film looked beautiful in that little window.  However, the installed product looked different, as it had all the components of a finished film.  I haven't seen a 3M spec chart in a few years to see if they still do this, as, like I said, Mike told me its all there.

 

 

 

TintJunkie, Yes any film will perform better on angle and even glass with no film as well, is the sun always at a 90 degree on a window ........... ? 

 

Is 3M PR film NFRC Certified......... ?

 

BTW, I did not tell you all 3M sample cards have all the components, you said they did not, I showed you this, see pic below.

 

A 3M tint factoid for you, at on time all 3M films did not have a liner but rather an overcoat over the adhesive that would dissolve once wet exposing the adhesive ( with the exception of 2 3M films ) the film would have looked real good on a sample card   back then ....  , if you look at the pic of an older window film sample card that I had showed you, you will notice that the liner is cloudy and that is how all of the 3M liners used at that time looked, However you will see a difference soon regarding 3M window film sample cards and how they look.......

 

An older 3M window film sample card I had showed you awhile back.

 

So tell me, how did Madico window film work out for you ..........?.........  ............. and what are you selling now ......... ?

 

 ............. The company I work for has been installing 3M Window Film or for that matter,  Any window film longer than Anyone .......  ........3M must be doing something right !!!!

 

Nothing to do with the the thread, but were you once a Vista dealer?