FormulaOne or 3M?

ultratintsouthport · October 8, 2014

Do not question 3m while ultra is here, rookie mistake :P.

LOL.

It's common to see a lot of anti-3M posts in these threads and in the industry in general. Most is hear-say and much of it comes from people who are either A: Trying to sell another brand. or B: Object to spending the extra money that it costs to use it over the cheaper, more readily available brands out there. I personally like 3M films, not because of the extra cost, or the extra money I can charge for it, but because I have a good understanding of the technologies and processes involved in their manufacturing processes. They are more expensive, but the stuff actually does work. Customer confidence in the brand is high, and if you use it and promote it, customers will often seek YOU out to get it. Many out there form an opinion based on their "experience" with the film. It's probably safe to say that they tried the bottom of the range FX ST because the others were too expensive. Every manny has their top range and their entry level product lines. Personally, I will only ever look at the top one or two products from any manufacturer, because everything below that is a quality and performance compromise to meet a certain price point in the market. (IE: corners cut = money saved) Or, they have tried the Crystalline for example and found that it was expensive and too difficult to shrink or work with etc..

Shops that choose the film they sell based on roll price and easiest installation, are simply whoring the industry for quick cash and don't genuinely have their customers best interests in mind.

(you can forever quote me on that if you wish)

I wasn't having a go at you personally. I was just pointing out that these threads often lead to fiery exchanges by the lovers and the haters. ( I know this because I may or may not have engaged in a few of them myself )

What we can thank the M's for is developing the first patent on window films back in 1966, and many of the new technologies that have come along since.

MIKEMN or SMARTIE might be able to shed more light on this.

I really like this post. I can't remember the last time a 3M user has posted something as eloquent as yours in favor for that big red logo.....
but Im not gonna agree, so I'll bite instead.

Many of us have went ahead and posting in these threads negatively about the product with simple words like "it sucks" or "waste of money", and I happen to agree with your "A" and "B."

I dont recall reading a post where someone said the film doesn't work, or works good, as I too believe their films work very well. Also, I haven't had a ton of "experience" installing their films, but I have installed a few thousand sq ft of it, and removed far more.

My gripe with 3M is their misleading marketing, in which they market very well...far better than any other mfg. Who else puts an on angle (60 degree) test data number on their spec chart but 3M? A test that isn't recognized in our industry as a standard testing method, and has also been documented with other films, that other films(if not all) perform better at that angle too. I know 3M isn't the only one, but they also provide IR testing data (with that cute little star next to the number) showing insane IR rejecting...also not recognized in our industry as standard testing methods, and only measure where their film performs the best to achieve the number printed on the chart. Huper does this as well, but uses the entire spectrum, and if the customer didn't know any better, they would see Huper as inferior, but Im not an advocate of Huper products either.

Now, MikeMN has told me the opposite of this, and I trust him as they have probably changed it, but I remember a time when 3M left out the liner, adhesive, and scratch coat layers on the sample placed in the spec chart. The film looked beautiful in that little window. However, the installed product looked different, as it had all the components of a finished film. I haven't seen a 3M spec chart in a few years to see if they still do this, as, like I said, Mike told me its all there.

Additionally, there is nothing wrong with using something other than 3M. To imply (in which you prob aren't) anything other than 3M is inferior isn't true. There are far better films on the market that will do the same job, perform the same, and outlast 3M.

My opinion is, the only reason there are 3M dealers is because they are out to bait customers in based on name recognition and sell them a product based on false information to make an insanely large profit. I say thats fine. As per my opinion, who is whoring who out?

It reminds me of the saying, "do one job, and do it well." The window film division of 3M makes up roughly 1% of 3M's total business. Could they do it better, or continue to sling enough poop out there to where someone eventually steps in it?

School me Ultra.

Wasn't ignoring you TJ.. Been crazy busy. Will give you a decent reply as soon as I can. [emoji6]

palmettotint · October 8, 2014

Did I miss something? Why are you leaving Huper in the first place?

TintJunkie · October 8, 2014

Mike, it wasn't that long ago when they didn't have the SR coat and the liner on the samples.

As far as Madico, I left them. The used to make a really good film. Today, we are selling Hanita.

Your post is a little hard to follow. Were you hitting the sauce a little hard yesterday?

As far as the testing, 3M is the only one who offers an on angle value. Why? No one does it. If everyone did it, would 3M film look so good? What about the IR number? Do you tell you potential customers about the fine print at the bottom of the card?

Of course 3M is doing something right. They have their logo on everything, and many consumers see it and purchase those products. Its brilliant. Then all it takes is for the consumer to make a search for window tinting, in which 3M is usually first to pop up. Then its "Hey! They make window tint too!! I'll call them". All of this is fine, as it almost always yields a call to us in our area. We are always so much lower in price, with a film that performs the same (if not better), and arguably with a product that that lasts longer. So, continue 3M, doing the marketing for us. We appreciate it.

TomTint · October 8, 2014

Is 3M still making film ? I was told they were using their film for potato chip bags now.

MikeMN · October 9, 2014

Mike, it wasn't that long ago when they didn't have the SR coat and the liner on the samples.

As far as Madico, I left them. The used to make a really good film. Today, we are selling Hanita.

Your post is a little hard to follow. Were you hitting the sauce a little hard yesterday?

As far as the testing, 3M is the only one who offers an on angle value. Why? No one does it. If everyone did it, would 3M film look so good? What about the IR number? Do you tell you potential customers about the fine print at the bottom of the card?

Of course 3M is doing something right. They have their logo on everything, and many consumers see it and purchase those products. Its brilliant. Then all it takes is for the consumer to make a search for window tinting, in which 3M is usually first to pop up. Then its "Hey! They make window tint too!! I'll call them". All of this is fine, as it almost always yields a call to us in our area. We are always so much lower in price, with a film that performs the same (if not better), and arguably with a product that that lasts longer. So, continue 3M, doing the marketing for us. We appreciate it.

Most of 3M sample cards do not have a liner and also no adhesive and they have been doing that for years, like I had explained.

Yep.

They have tested film on angle for years, do you think the numbers are wrong ............... ?

Hanita, Good Luck with all that............. :blink ............ :thumb

Name one other window film company that has been more Innovative then 3M and has helped our industry more then any other................ ?

To Win a bid for a job, there are more then just sample cards and info provided my a many, and when you under stand that you will sell more film and Not just on a lower price......... :twocents

Been doing just fine for over 50 years...........

TintJunkie · October 9, 2014

We don't sell on price against anyone. We learn about what they were told after quoting.

No, I don't think their numbers are wrong. They put it there to look better when others don't have to.

Haven't seen any other film that puts ft marks on their film...to me, thats brilliant. Hanita does this. I like the film, so do my customers, but they don't pay attention to the name. They focus on my wife (or us), or maybe she was wearing a low cut top...

Innovation, well, like how? They put 200 plus layers of something in a film, which skyrockets the cost to make it, and the film performs marginally better than a metal film at the same vlt? I guess they got rid of the shine, but the film looks terrible. I like Hanita's Natura line.

Thought we were friends Mike. I bash 3M and you come up with a cute quip. You sound all serious and chit.

We don't need luck. We do just fine selling a service, without using a name.

Ocala · October 9, 2014

If 3M film was as good as others claim, wouldn't we all be selling it????

jh812 · October 9, 2014

No it would be really over priced then and there would always be a cheaper competitor.

TomTint · October 9, 2014

There is a old saying. "If you can't cook the bacon , sell the sizzle" this is what 3M is great at. They are a outstanding marketing company. But in the real world have done nothing innovative as it relates to bringing a window film to market. The most innovative film in the recent past is VEP. That's a fact. What 3M does is find ways to create perceived superiority in a market where they are average at best.