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Reasonable defects following paint protection film installation?


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I have a car with black metallic paint that has already been coated with Opticoat Pro+ and I’m considering putting Xpel Ultimate over the top followed by another coat of optiocoat over the PPF. (yes I am aware the most install coating over film instead of under it).

 

The PPF business near me says PPF installation over the opticoat will void all warranty from all PPF manufactures and has in fact gone on to say they only fix major installation defects and should not expect a flawless install. I am grateful for his candid advice by the way.

 

Questions:

1. Since the Xpel installer has said warranty is void and only major defects will be corrected, I wanted to know what types of installation problems / visual defects are considered reasonable following Paint Protection film installation?

2. Has anyone had problems installing PPF over Opticoat Pro+, I assume it’s very rare?

3. Would it be correct to assume Opticoat over PPF should help prevent yellowing of Xpel Ultimate and help keep the edges of the film clean?

4. I read in several forums that PPF should be removed around 5yrs or it will damage the paint work, is this fact or fiction with modern PPF?

 

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So by the responses thus far, does everyone agree I shouldn’t expect anything less than perfect? What about problems like lift lines, fingerprints, air bubbles and the odd line etc should they be completely absent?

 

Sorry for the line of questioning but as someone that’s never had this done I wanted to know realistic expectations before I lay money down. It’s a bit difficult at times to know when someone is telling you the truth or just trying to get your money (no offense directed to anyone of course).

 

Jeff thanks for you offer, so are you offering to contact the installer directly? I wondering if the installer might take that personally and make things worse? Regarding removal of PPF, factory warranties vary greatly from 3 -7 years any chance of elaborating on your comment? Also can you confirm if Xpel warranty (Australian Market) is void if it’s installed over Opti-coat pro+? Feel free to PM if you prefer.

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I would not accept any installation defects we as well as others do flawless installs every single day if your installer is talking your expectations down like this find a better one.

I seriously doubt that anyone does flawless installs. I have seen flaws in every install I have ever seen. But to say they only fix "major" flaws is not a good business practice. Maybe and I hope, they mean because of the opticoat being applied previously? It's hard to warranty something like that as it might cause major install issues.

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I would not accept any installation defects we as well as others do flawless installs every single day if your installer is talking your expectations down like this find a better one.

I seriously doubt that anyone does flawless installs. I have seen flaws in every install I have ever seen. But to say they only fix "major" flaws is not a good business practice. Maybe and I hope, they mean because of the opticoat being applied previously? It's hard to warranty something like that as it might cause major install issues.

We have done Flawless installs for over a decade and I know plenty of others who do likewise.

Happy to prove it If you want to get on a plane and Fly out of the US

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I would definitely like to chime into this before the Installer bashing goes to far, seeing as though I am the installer in question!

 

When customers contact installers with absolutely no idea on a product It is their job to educate as much as possible. This is usually appreciated as it is a big unknown area and a lot of trades do not put enough effort into, they are in it just to get your money (as you so put it).

 

This is a perfect example of words being taken out of context by the customer focusing on the word 'major' and not understanding on what an installer of a particular product considers to be major. This was elaborated on but clearly not enough. I 100% standby that not every install can be completely flawless/perfect. Im sure if trained installers looked those that claim there's are they will find minute flaws in some of their installs. Sure these are flaws that 99% of customers will never notice and are hard to see but if you happen to get that customer that does go looking and notice it, then its better to set expectations before. Cars come in that are 'brand new' in the customers eyes that can have defects, rock chips they never noticed that may result in a slight air bubble, the odd spec of dust etc.  Yes also slightly cautious over potential Opticoat issues recesses, stretched areas etc but due to many forums claiming they have not had an issue we were more than happy to set this out from the start and continue if wanted. Straight from Xpels FAQ page

"Can/should Opticoat or cQuartz be applied to the car before the film is installed?"

We do NOT recommend applying sealants such as Opticoat or cQuartz to the parts of the car that will be covered with film. The low surface energy of paint sealant products such as these will cause adhesion problems both during installation and over the life of the product. In addition, it is worth noting that there is really no benefit to applying sealant to the paint before the film anyway, since the film will provide far more environmental protection to the paint than a sealant ever could.

 

As mentioned, its about ensuring there is nothing visually displeasing, of course fingerprints, silvering etc are unacceptable. Every installer knows that you don't last long in this (and many other) business doing bad installs and I certain wouldn't offer a service that I lose money on from not being able to install properly.  We have never had an issue with an unhappy customer and they appreciate us being upfront about PPF not being completely invisible. This is impressed on you during the XPEL certification to not sell the PPF as a completely invisible and indestructible product. They in fact mentioned they shoot for 95% perfect installs, does this mean they 5% is a dirty big line or air bubbles everywhere. No, it means they are realistic that not every install can be 100% and you could waste a lot of money chasing that 100% unnecessarily.

 

I advised the customer that they definitely need to check out an install and happy for them to come by this Friday to check out a full frontal we are doing, as seeing the product that they have never seen and discussing in person is invaluable to emails. Unfortunately that time didn't work out which was fine but still would have thought a lot better then taking to a forum.

 

I would also like to add that I had already checked DAP and there were no kits for an Audi S1, was 99% sure this meant we were not going to do it but was always happy to confirm. I took time to provide advice knowing this rather then saying, sorry, no kit available, see you later. Was only too happy to try assist knowing it will help our towns only other installer (who we have good rapport with that uses Hexis Bodyfence). Was also asked if I wrap edges, took the time to educate about what is wrap able and what isnt

 

Apologies if the word 'major' was taken out of context, would have been happy to clarify more or as mentioned show you if you were concerned but yes I did as DynamicApearance mentioned sense pickiness, more through a lack of exposure to the product and from you reading forums but I was only too happy to assist with all that as there is nothing wrong with pickiness.

Removal and coatings over films were not even discussed, so I don't need contacting/educating over that thanks Jeff.

 

Day 1 back off holiday, hopefully this doesn't set the tone for the rest of the year.

 

Good luck with your install.

Edited by Supreme
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Very well said Supreme!

 

To the OP, there is nothing perfect...period.  We do not install in a vacuum.  Any installer that tells you their installs are absolutely perfect also believes they are the best in the world and most of the time fall very short of that goal.  All installers strive for perfection, but it will never happen 100%.  PPF and Tint can look "perfect", but a trained person can always spot something in it.  I am sure if Supreme does the work you will be 100% happy with it.  He did the right thing by not promising an Unicorn and delivering a Pony.

Edited by DynamicAppearance
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