Seeking advice regarding residential security window film

electric_monk · November 14, 2017

Hi all, a bit of background: I'm paranoid, and always worry about the security of my home when I'm away. It makes holidays abroad and even visiting friends a bit of a downer, though I realise it's totally a psychological problem, as I've yet to actually experience a break in. However, that doesn't mean I can't try to alleviate the concerns!

Basically amongst other things (like door armour) I was considering window film to make it harder to get in my house - I know a determined burglar will always get in (after all, the houses around here are just wood, so they could just take a reciprocating or circular saw and make a new hole) but window film seems like it'd help, particularly with opportunistic thieves (who will hopefully be deterred if they find they can't just get in after they try and smash a window) who I could imagine just leaving if it turned out to be a pain.

From searching online, something like Ultra S600 seems like what I want, with some sort of bonding to the window frame.

I found three 3M distributors in the area:

- The first asked for some pictures of the window frames, then said they couldn't do it (they said the "framing system" is "very small", so it couldn't accept "film with attachment" and no good to prevent breach)

- The second came and measured the windows and said they'd do everything but the bathroom, as the texture for the privacy glass is on the inside. When I asked about anchoring, the guy said they don't do that, and that the way they do it, the glass will just pop out after a few hits (so make sure the police are on their way as soon as you hear glass breaking)

- The third are coming on Thursday

Now, the "we don't anchor" from the second guy seems a bit strange - since the first outright rejected due to difficulties with anchoring under the window frame, and I know 3M make caulks for this purpose, what's the game there? Can anyone provide me with more guidance as to what to expect?

Finally, is there any solution for the bathroom window (e.g. can I put the window film on the outside, or will I need to figure out how to dismantle the PVC window frames and flip the panes round, if that's even possible?)

Thanks!

drtint · November 15, 2017

15 hours ago, electric_monk said:

Hi all, a bit of background: I'm paranoid, and always worry about the security of my home when I'm away. It makes holidays abroad and even visiting friends a bit of a downer, though I realise it's totally a psychological problem, as I've yet to actually experience a break in. However, that doesn't mean I can't try to alleviate the concerns!

Basically amongst other things (like door armour) I was considering window film to make it harder to get in my house - I know a determined burglar will always get in (after all, the houses around here are just wood, so they could just take a reciprocating or circular saw and make a new hole) but window film seems like it'd help, particularly with opportunistic thieves (who will hopefully be deterred if they find they can't just get in after they try and smash a window) who I could imagine just leaving if it turned out to be a pain.

From searching online, something like Ultra S600 seems like what I want, with some sort of bonding to the window frame.

I found three 3M distributors in the area:

- The first asked for some pictures of the window frames, then said they couldn't do it (they said the "framing system" is "very small", so it couldn't accept "film with attachment" and no good to prevent breach)

- The second came and measured the windows and said they'd do everything but the bathroom, as the texture for the privacy glass is on the inside. When I asked about anchoring, the guy said they don't do that, and that the way they do it, the glass will just pop out after a few hits (so make sure the police are on their way as soon as you hear glass breaking)

- The third are coming on Thursday

Now, the "we don't anchor" from the second guy seems a bit strange - since the first outright rejected due to difficulties with anchoring under the window frame, and I know 3M make caulks for this purpose, what's the game there? Can anyone provide me with more guidance as to what to expect?

Finally, is there any solution for the bathroom window (e.g. can I put the window film on the outside, or will I need to figure out how to dismantle the PVC window frames and flip the panes round, if that's even possible?)

Thanks!

Post some pics

Roach · November 15, 2017

17 hours ago, electric_monk said:

- The first asked for some pictures of the window frames, then said they couldn't do it (they said the "framing system" is "very small", so it couldn't accept "film with attachment" and no good to prevent breach)

- The second came and measured the windows and said they'd do everything but the bathroom, as the texture for the privacy glass is on the inside. When I asked about anchoring, the guy said they don't do that, and that the way they do it, the glass will just pop out after a few hits (so make sure the police are on their way as soon as you hear glass breaking)

- The third are coming on Thursday

Now, the "we don't anchor" from the second guy seems a bit strange - since the first outright rejected due to difficulties with anchoring under the window frame, and I know 3M make caulks for this purpose, what's the game there? Can anyone provide me with more guidance as to what to expect?

S600 is a good product from what I know... never used it, but I've read about it.

1. The issue is with residential windows, the frames are a lot smaller and you have less attachment options then with commercial windows.

Which brings us to #2. Without an attachment system, the film will just hold the glass together and allow it to pop out of the window frame - so it's pretty much useless in terms of people breaking in.

I'm sure it's not impossible to do - attach the film on a residential window. It's just not as ideal as with a commercial window with metal frames and such.

Just in general, attachment systems have a higher skill level then just tinting a window with film. Both in terms of installing it, and making it look good once done. Whatever route you decide to go, I would ask them for photos of finished residential safety film installs.

Edited November 15, 2017 by Roach

electric_monk · November 15, 2017

Thanks for the input! I'll try and post some pictures when I get home tonight.

The window just popping out whole was my major fear - I saw on Amazon a non-3M window film people were DIY-installing, and one guy had actually gone to the effort of testing it by installing some and panning the window in, and his complaint was that it made entry very easy, as the whole smashed window just came out as a sheet. If company #2 isn't intending to attach it at all I'm not really sure what the point is!

I actually just received a sample in the mail from the first company - it contained a kind of rubber strip with two sticky parts on the rear, which they called 3M PPA. Without any actual instructions I think the idea is that it sticks onto the film on the window on one of the strips, and to the window frame on the other. They note that it won't work on all windows, and it's pretty wide (~1.5") so a lot of people don't like the look, but it seems to be an option.

Roach · November 15, 2017

What they sent you sounds about right. Here is a pic I found online..

Because the attachment needs to be pretty wide, going around all the windows, and usually black in color, on a home it's not the prettiest. (Which is why it would be super important to see pics of previous jobs to make sure they will do a good job with it and make it look good) And again, with it just attaching to wood frames (if the windows have wood frames) the wood can splinter off during a forced entry situation.

The point of just having safety film installed could just be to keep the window glass together for safety reasons. I've done safety film on windows where the glass is supposed to be tempered - next to doors, in bathrooms, etc. There the concern is someone putting their hand thru the glass and getting hurt, or the glass braking and injuring someone from something like a bird hitting the window, or a stray ball crashing thru, etc.

TomTint · November 15, 2017

There are numerous manufacturers that offer security film in various strengths. Many of them do not suffer the same poor optical clarity issues that the 3M product does. Having said that, it makes no difference what film you use, if it's not mechanically attached to the frame itself.. all you did was make the clean up of broken glass easier. As it will simply fall onto the floor in a large piece. For security, it absolutely positively must be attached. There are several ways to do it depending on what type of frames you have. Simplest is a wet glaze ( structural caulking ) but if your frames are not wide enough to get proper coverage ( bite ) this may not be a viable option. There are also other ways to attach film to frame such as Pentagon or Gull Wing systems. My suggestion is to have your perspective installers do a mock up for you before you hire them. With attachment and security film.. things can go very wrong very fast and leave you with a mess.

electric_monk · November 17, 2017

Here's some pictures of the various window frame types around the house. I think the attachment from the first company could be applied to any of them with some imagination.

The third company came this morning, and also didn't want to use any sort of attachment - in this case the guy did actually have example attachments but said they only use them for commercial windows, not residential (and theirs were these massive black things like Roach describes, while the sample the first company sent me was tasteful and white to match the window frames). They also said attachments were labour intensive and expensive, though on the plus side, today's company was completely fine with putting window film on the outside of the bathroom window (and the guy was pushing for putting film on both sides).

So it looks like out of the three companies in the area, only one will even consider attachments (and realise that it's important enough that they won't install without it), but nobody does caulk. What other brands of window film are available that I can hunt down in the area to see if I can find other installers? For reference I'm in the Bay Area.

Tint Eastwood · November 17, 2017

I wouldn't waste my money on film for those windows. For the level of security it seems you are looking for, I would say new windows, new glass, bars or a good security system would be better money spent.

The security films and attachment systems just are not designed for these types of situations, and I feel any film/attachment combination will leave you with a false sense of security. :twocents

Roach · November 17, 2017

I agree with Eastwood...

electric_monk · November 17, 2017

Thanks for the advice! When you say new glass, does that mean it's possible to upgrade the windows without taking the whole frame out? I do agree they're kind of crappy frames though (especially the "double glazing" technique they seemed to have taken of just installing two separate windows into the one window hole), so replacing the whole thing is something I'd be open to. I also assume you can get window film installed at the same time as the windows are replaced, which seems like it'd make it easier.