Would you please suggest an IR/Solar REFLECTIVE tint for my Mitsubishi Outlander panoramic roof?

[KMS]

I'm considering tinting the entire vehicle, but I've got to do something about the panoramic roof. It acts like a radiator in direct sun.

 

I've searched the forums here, as well as other sites, but have yet to find (understand?) the best tint/film options for my panoramic roof. The Outlander roof is tinted, but allows a great deal of solar heat. The cover is merely a single layer of thin, opaque, dark (on both top and bottom, dumb) fabric that does very little. I don't want to install anything that merely absorbs solar energy and radiates heat. I'm seeking a solution that actually reflects IR, UV, and possibly even some visible light, if that's possible.

 

My understanding is that both dyed and ceramic tints absorb IR, and that 3M Crystalline may reflect most IR between 900-1000nm, but that seems more like crafty marketing than anything as most IR energy is between 700-900nm. I've read that V-Kool reflects IR, but I haven't seen that it's available in the US. Also, I lack the skill to DIY this, so I'd like to use something that's readily available to skilled US installers (PA/NJ/DE area, preferably).

 

If I can't find a tint that actually reflects solar energy, I've considered covering the roof with perf window wrap (white outside / black inside). The look wouldn't be ideal, but it would probably work.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Bham]

You will NEVER be able to stop all the radiant heat that is going to happen when parked in the sun. Doesn't matter what film you choose, the radiant heat effects that your vehicle experiences after the car is sitting in the sun will never go away. The most expensive, best performing film on the market still won't work.  Direct opaque blockage of the sun (i.e. complete shade) is the only way to stop the solar energy effects of the sun.  

That being said, you need to focus on the best IR film for your needs.  You (your skin) feels the IR part of the heat spectrum, hence the reason IR films "perform" so well.  They block a spectrum of heat the we feel with or skin. The IR spectrum has little do with the plastics, metals, and glass in the vehicle.  

 

Best case scenario which is RATHER RISKY in my opinion because of thermal fracture possibilities would be a 5% ceramic which blocks as much light at IR as possible. This option would ruin your visibility thru said glass roof kinda negating the reason for it.   Plus the risk of thermal fracture and the cost of replacing said glass roof makes this decision quite a quandary.  Good luck and I hope it doesn't shatter.  

 

The perforated vinyl will do very little to fix your problem other than obscuring vision and holding water.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Bham

[KMS]

2 hours ago, Bham said:

You will NEVER be able to stop all the radiant heat that is going to happen when parked in the sun.

You made some assumptions that don't apply to my request.

 

First, blocking ALL of the heat is absurd. My hope is to reflect as much solar energy as I reasonably could without making the roof opaque or blinding other drivers.

 

Second, I'm not concerned about solar energy absorbed when parked - my issue is solar energy that comes through the roof when I'm in the car and moving.

2 hours ago, Bham said:

Best case scenario which is RATHER RISKY in my opinion because of thermal fracture possibilities would be a 5% ceramic which blocks as much light at IR as possible.

Uh, no. Ceramics ABSORB - I want to REFLECT.

2 hours ago, Bham said:

The perforated vinyl will do very little to fix your problem other than obscuring vision and holding water.

My thought was to place 50/50 black/white or black/silver perf on the INSIDE of the glass. And although it WOULD reflect solar energy, I doubt that perf would be the best solution.

 

I freely admit that this is not my area of expertise, so my ideas about solutions are not well-informed. Would a metallic film reflect more energy than a Crystalline? Would a sputtered film work better? Are there sputtered films (akin to V-Kool) readily available in the US?

 

I'm seeking neither a perfect solution nor a bargain DIY solution. I'm seeking advice regarding the best options for professionally installed solutions that would make a significant difference.

Edited June 2, 2023 by KMS

[Bham]

3 hours ago, KMS said:

You made some assumptions that don't apply to my request.

 

First, blocking ALL of the heat is absurd. My hope is to reflect as much solar energy as I reasonably could without making the roof opaque or blinding other drivers.

 

Second, I'm not concerned about solar energy absorbed when parked - my issue is solar energy that comes through the roof when I'm in the car and moving.

Uh, no. Ceramics ABSORB - I want to REFLECT.

My thought was to place 50/50 black/white or black/silver perf on the INSIDE of the glass. And although it WOULD reflect solar energy, I doubt that perf would be the best solution.

 

I freely admit that this is not my area of expertise, so my ideas about solutions are not well-informed. Would a metallic film reflect more energy than a Crystalline? Would a sputtered film work better? Are there sputtered films (akin to V-Kool) readily available in the US?

 

I'm seeking neither a perfect solution nor a bargain DIY solution. I'm seeking advice regarding the best options for professionally installed solutions that would make a significant difference.

 

My assumption as you put it is not any different driving or siting still. Parked or moving, Radiant heat is just that and you can't beat it only reduce it, as you are trying to do.  Ceramic film both absorb and reflect. Yes you could put some sort of mirrored film on there to try and reduce your problem but it is not legal, even on the roof.  And it would have to be applied on the outside to have any decent effect. Which in my opinion would be more dangerous than the on the side windows.  Truck drivers would crash when you went over the first hill in front of them at noon.  

 

As I said before, you best option is a ceramic film.  I didn't mention that it would probably be best in a mid to very light shade 50%-70%, but I am now.  

All of these options still run the risk of thermal fracture due to the amount of extreme exposure the roof gets from the direct sun.  And to go along with my assumption, your vehicle will be parked in the direct sun for a long period of time at some point and adding any type of film changes the dynamics of the glass.  Now reflecting or absorbing in some sort of way hence causing risk. 

 

Perforated film applied to either side will do little to nothing for heat.  

Edited June 2, 2023 by Bham

[KMS]

3 minutes ago, Bham said:

My assumption at you put it is not any different driving or siting still. Parked or moving, Radiant heat is just that and you can't beat it only reduce it, as you are trying to do.  Ceramic film both absorb and reflect.

How very disappointing. Your reply is filled with nonsense.

 

First, ceramic film primarily absorbs IR, and it is this absorption that is the cause of thermal breakage. The film absorbs heat, the glass heats unevenly, and the consequence is stress.

 

Second, a moving vehicle will shed heat far more rapidly than a stationary vehicle, as the moving air will cause the exposed surfaces to shed heat. This is also why a fan cools you. Or a breeze. You know what those are yes? Ceramic film will trap the heat energy on the glass, where it can be more easily shed by a MOVING vehicle.

 

You know how I know this? I know this because I SEARCHED THIS FORUM BEFORE POSTING and PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM HAVE WRITTEN EXACTLY THIS.

 

Finally, perforated film blocks all forms of radiation, because it's made of OPAQUE film with holes. The OPAQUE portions block EVERYTHING because they're OPAQUE.

 

Also, FYI:

 

Here's a quote from one installer who gets it:

"Ceramic films are designed to absorb the sun's heat, preventing it from passing through into your vehicle's cabin. Sounds great, but this technology only works if your car is in motion allowing the air to push the heat away from the vehicle. However, if you are sitting in traffic or a parking lot, there is nothing to move the heat away from the glass. The heat will continue to build up until it radiates heat inwards toward you. So the amount you feel when driving versus the amount you feel when sitting still is vastly different. All Ceramic films work this way, including the brands we carry. 3M Crystalline technology is more advanced than Ceramic technology. While it absorbs some heat, the vast majority is redirected away from the glass, keeping you much cooler whether you are driving or not. Even though a select few Ceramic films can hang with Crystalline when the car is in motion, none can touch it while sitting still."

https://dynamicappearance.com/blog/3m-crystalline-is-better-than-ceramic/

 

And from this forum:

"We sell both Llumar/3M and was previously a Huper dealer. I had Huper Ceramic on one of my cars and switched to Crystalline when we picked up 3M. I felt a huge difference in heat rejection...my tinter said the same thing when he switched his vehicle too. Unlike Ceramic films that absorb the heat, Crystalline redirects a good portion of it away from the vehicle. This means less radiating heat inside the vehicle when the it is not moving."

https://www.tintdude.com/forums/topic/91270-please-help-me-choose-a-film/?do=findComment&comment=1445602

 

And another from this forum:

"Crystalline is very effective at reflecting the near-infrared (part of solar energy) rather than absorbing it, which occurs with ceramic products."

https://www.tintdude.com/forums/topic/92507-is-this-cluster-of-blurry-regions-normal-on-my-model-3-front-windshield/?do=findComment&comment=1451402

 

And another:

"Ceramic and most other films absorb a majority of the sun's energy (radiation) and then generate far infrared radiating toward the cooler side of the glass. Ceramics can create a radiator effect in the vicinity of the glass it is applied to, especially on the cooler side. That said, if your vehicle is not traveling fast enough to create serious cooling of the glass exterior surface, greater than the inside cabin temp using AC, the absorbed heat will move toward the cabin. A friend learned that by having a (high absorption) ceramic film on his windshield of his truck. He was baking while driving with AC and eventially removed the film.

 

3M Crystalline might very well be the best choice for windscreens, since it has the technology to reflect a lot on the intense portion of near infrared, while all other films absorb it."

https://www.tintdude.com/forums/topic/93777-tinted-windshields-negate-windshield-sun-shades-tinted-sunroofsexplodingcrack-glass/?do=findComment&comment=1456777

 

There are plenty of other posts with similar content. Do you disagree with all of these posts from other members?

 

Jeez.

 

[KMS]

Regardless of the foolishness above, I'm guessing my options boil down to 3M Crystalline or a superior sputtered film, if such a thing is available in the US market. If anyone has any insightful - rather than argumentative - comments, such would be most welcome.

Edited June 2, 2023 by KMS

[Bham]

The nonsense is that you are not looking at all the factors of the situation and just trying to eliminate part of the equation when the other part of the equation is still plausible and part of the problem.  You also are not understanding the fact that if you didn't have skin the type of film wouldn't matter.  The only way you know ceramic works is by feel and IR is what you feel the most of.  This simply explains why ceramic films work.   But you seem to know way more than someone in the business so best of luck to you and your expertise.  

[KMS]

So then you disagree with all of the posts made by other members?

[Bham]

15 minutes ago, KMS said:

So then you disagree with all of the posts made by other members?

 

No sir. All of those post are 100% correct.  The part they don't mention is the reaction of your skin to the part of the heat spectrum being blocked or absorbed.  Either way the IR (what you feel most) is not getting to your skin.  Ceramic films unless very dark do not do much different than a regular dark film for the over all impact of the total heat spectrum, which involves way more than IR.  But since or skin reacts to IR in feel more than any other part of the spectrum, a film that blocks or absorbs more of that spectrum would be the most beneficial.  As long as you are on the other side of the piece of film so that you feel the performance factors of said film.  

[Tintguy1980]

Yes, Crystalline would be your best choice. I have Crystalline 40 on my driver/passenger doors and love it. It's been there for 7 years and still performs and looks the same as the day it was installed.

As to the glass in the roof, it has laminated glass that is more prone to thermal stress. It also may have one layer of 'tinted' glass that isn't doing so much in terms solar rejection. The best way to tell is to open it partially and compare white clouds looking from the inside to determine glass 'color'.

If the glass has a factory tint to it, you can ask around tint shops to see if they carry a reflective (mirror or semi-mirror) architectural film with relatively low absorption with much better solar reflective properties.. It has to be a film using a pressure sensitive adhesive system (already stick under the protective liner.

Another option in the architectural film choices would be a dual reflective film. Dual (or DR) films have a layer of tint and a reflective layer laminated together to provide low reflective to the interior side and enhanced reflectivity to the exterior facing. They, too, have lower absorption rates with moderate to serious solar rejection. Again, a pressure sensitive adhesive is a must for automotive installations of architectural film.

 

If there is a tint is the roof glass, any reflective appearance of reflective (or mirror type) film will be diminished in the same fashion as laminating a tint layer to a reflective layer to make dual reflect film products. So in essence from outside the vehicle the reflectivity of the roof would  be less than placing mirrored film on relatively clear glass.

Ceramics, ceramic-dyed and straight-dyed films are the most absorptive films on the market.

 

Good luck in your search for the architectural film with pressure sensitive adhesive. You might see if SolarGard, Johnson, VKool, Huper Optiks, or Madico film still sells pressure sensitive adhesive version of their reflective films.