Champagne Unavoidable?

August 27, 2005

Need some advice from you experienced 8 mil installers out there. No matter what techniques we try, and we've read everyone's suggestions here and of course from our rep, we can't get the stuff to go on without at least a little champagne bubbling or streaking here and there. Our rep is saying with the 8 mil it's just a fact of life that is unavoidable. Is anyone out there getting this stuff to go on clean? If so is it just the brand I'm using? Are particular brands of security film known to have this problem more so than others? Any guidance would be appreciated.

Wftech

August 27, 2005

Need some advice from you experienced 8 mil installers out there. No matter what techniques we try, and we've read everyone's suggestions here and of course from our rep, we can't get the stuff to go on without at least a little champagne bubbling or streaking here and there. Our rep is saying with the 8 mil it's just a fact of life that is unavoidable. Is anyone out there getting this stuff to go on clean? If so is it just the brand I'm using? Are particular brands of security film known to have this problem more so than others? Any guidance would be appreciated.
Wftech

[*]309324

There are 2 or 3 brands that are finicky at install... one of them may have the clearest adhesive and should not be squeegeed more than once using an aggressive technique and if at all possible, should not be installed in direct sunlight. If so, ice in the application solution may go a long way in reducing temperatures of water, glass, and film.

August 30, 2005

Need some advice from you experienced 8 mil installers out there. No matter what techniques we try, and we've read everyone's suggestions here and of course from our rep, we can't get the stuff to go on without at least a little champagne bubbling or streaking here and there. Our rep is saying with the 8 mil it's just a fact of life that is unavoidable. Is anyone out there getting this stuff to go on clean? If so is it just the brand I'm using? Are particular brands of security film known to have this problem more so than others? Any guidance would be appreciated.
Wftech

[*]309324

There are 2 or 3 brands that are finicky at install... one of them may have the clearest adhesive and should not be squeegeed more than once using an aggressive technique and if at all possible, should not be installed in direct sunlight. If so, ice in the application solution may go a long way in reducing temperatures of water, glass, and film.

[*]309338

Haven't tried ice yet, thanks for the tip. Although we are not installing in sunlight, we'll try anything at this point. I'm not sure if it's kosher to name names here, but I'm wondering whuich are the finicky brands? Armorcoat is the one I'm working with.

Wftech

Devil with bad attitude · September 2, 2005

The tip with 8 is to make sure that once you get the film on the glass, make sure your first squeegee pass anywhere with a 4" clear Max is not limp wristed. :gayfight This is most important to avoid squashed air or smudging.

After that first hit, squeegee the living daylights out of it big time.

If you see a smudge go back over it and pound the fuccer out of it.

An easy pass during initial setup will smudge but it will go in time depending on ambient heat and sun exposure around or on the film.

Devil :bingo

September 4, 2005

The tip with 8 is to make sure that once you get the film on the glass, make sure your first squeegee pass anywhere with a 4" clear Max is not limp wristed. This is most important to avoid squashed air or smudging.
After that first hit, squeegee the living daylights out of it big time.

If you see a smudge go back over it and pound the fuccer out of it.

An easy pass during initial setup will smudge but it will go in time depending on ambient heat and sun exposure around or on the film.

Devil

[*]310979

When we see bubbles or veins, it is because the installers have not used enough soap in their mix. Sometimes you have to move water pockets from other portions of the film to erase the water lines or spotting.

Devil with bad attitude · September 4, 2005

I haven't found that at all TP but agreed you do need the right amount to get the film to slip in order to handle it.

Devil

September 5, 2005

The tip with 8 is to make sure that once you get the film on the glass, make sure your first squeegee pass anywhere with a 4" clear Max is not limp wristed. This is most important to avoid squashed air or smudging.
After that first hit, squeegee the living daylights out of it big time.

If you see a smudge go back over it and pound the fuccer out of it.

An easy pass during initial setup will smudge but it will go in time depending on ambient heat and sun exposure around or on the film.

Devil

[*]310979

When we see bubbles or veins, it is because the installers have not used enough soap in their mix. Sometimes you have to move water pockets from other portions of the film to erase the water lines or spotting.

[*]311474

:gay

This being the basis for CPFilms now encouraging the use of twice the norm of FilmOn for installation of thick gage films.

September 26, 2005

The tip with 8 is to make sure that once you get the film on the glass, make sure your first squeegee pass anywhere with a 4" clear Max is not limp wristed. :inot This is most important to avoid squashed air or smudging.
After that first hit, squeegee the living daylights out of it big time.

If you see a smudge go back over it and pound the fuccer out of it.

An easy pass during initial setup will smudge but it will go in time depending on ambient heat and sun exposure around or on the film.

Devil

[*]310979

When we see bubbles or veins, it is because the installers have not used enough soap in their mix. Sometimes you have to move water pockets from other portions of the film to erase the water lines or spotting.

[*]311474

First time replying, but thought I should. Adequate amount of soap is critical, but not too much else film continues to move. Leverage is the key. If you have to be on ladder, uneven weight distribution during squeegee will cause champagne bubbles. Slow even force and overlap at least 1/2 previous pass. No one could make sense of champagne bubbles, but I think it is caused by the thick adhesive on 8 mil and above films. While trying to get water out under the film, the thick adhesive is being shifted, thus causing tiny bubbles to get trap. Just my theory. I too am using Armorcoat. :inot

September 26, 2005

? but I think it is caused by the thick adhesive on 8 mil and above films.? While trying to get water out under the film, the thick adhesive is being shifted, thus causing tiny bubbles to get trap.? Just my theory.? I too am using Armorcoat.?

[*]319248

Partly correct... champagne bubbles are from air being forced through the adhesive structure. Very difficult to remove even with the method tintposer has spoke of.

Extra slip in the application solution is key to keeping the adhesive from sticking too quick before hammering the surface with a squeegee. Air in front of the squeegee blade hits a tacked area... Bam!... You force the air into the adhesive causing microscopic bubbles (been looked at under a microscope).

Minimal overlaps and consistency in pressure are also important. The best thing anyone could do for this issue is to use a cleaning squeegee to lightly squeegee the bulk of the solution out, leaving no air pockets and a thin sheet of solution. Then come back with one good, aggressive squeegee pass with very little overlap and no other pass once the adhesive has been 'pressed' to the glass (meaning just one time with the heavy hand). Hard card dry the edges only.

Need to retrieve a contaminant or water bubble... best lift the film to that point, saturate under the film (lift contaminant) and squeegee the wet area only, making sure not to strike any film area that has been 'pressed' into place.

TINT · September 27, 2005

but I think it is caused by the thick adhesive on 8 mil and above films. While trying to get water out under the film, the thick adhesive is being shifted, thus causing tiny bubbles to get trap. Just my theory. I too am using Armorcoat.

[*]319248

Partly correct... champagne bubbles are from air being forced through the adhesive structure. Very difficult to remove even with the method tintposer has spoke of.

Extra slip in the application solution is key to keeping the adhesive from sticking too quick before hammering the surface with a squeegee. Air in front of the squeegee blade hits a tacked area... Bam!... You force the air into the adhesive causing microscopic bubbles (been looked at under a microscope).

Minimal overlaps and consistency in pressure are also important. The best thing anyone could do for this issue is to use a cleaning squeegee to lightly squeegee the bulk of the solution out, leaving no air pockets and a thin sheet of solution. Then come back with one good, aggressive squeegee pass with very little overlap and no other pass once the adhesive has been 'pressed' to the glass (meaning just one time with the heavy hand). Hard card dry the edges only.

Need to retrieve a contaminant or water bubble... best lift the film to that point, saturate under the film (lift contaminant) and squeegee the wet area only, making sure not to strike any film area that has been 'pressed' into place.

[*]319285