tango2

On 9/17/2017 at 1:14 PM, pro-tect mobile said:

Brass only.

What He Said ^^^

Simple expedient of a hard card along the edge of the stripe and keep the car in the shop for a few days to ensure it takes rinse and repeat until it does.

Cheers

Suntek is a great film STEk seems from our initial testing to also be pretty good.

Ultimately it comes down to the skill of the installer now.

A great installer will do a good job whichever film you choose.

There are quality designs out there however the film manufacturers need to realise designers will not supply for peanuts.

In order to get top quality there are major cost implications.

Sadly for the market the film companies will not pay fair value so nothing will change.

There have been plenty of press releases over the years laying out their game plan

Read those and you will know their long term intentions.

So I wonder if they will still have a DAP and a proform option for each car? Or is proform as

seperate patterns just going to go away.

According to press reports they will be integrated into the Dap so effectively they cease to be as a separate entity.

http://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/idINASC09M2Q

I guess that takes Proform out of the equation now.

As most guys focus on the quality rather than the time taken I doubt you will find a set of generally agreed parameters

Here is my other thread:

http://www.tintdude.com/forum/index.php/topic/83410-brushed-steel/

Since we're so off course and I'm obviously not going to get any help, on my first thread I made an off-hand remark about PPF before my wrap question, and these dopes thought I was confusing PPF with wrap. No, if you read my posting history here you'll find I have a pretty good knowledge of these things, apparently better than anyone here since no one knows the answers to my questions I just didn't know that there was a wrap-specific forum where I should have put the thread.

Well then, being as you know so much, doesn't that make your question a bit redundant? I mean you should know what you don't know correct? I did view your post history, now I am confident that I also know what you don't know.... But then again, what do I know I'm only a "dope" that helped forge an industry... and people wonder why those of us that have been in the industry so long and built successful thriving companies, don't help on forums as much as we used to...

If posting from a cell sometimes it posts multiple times sometimes not at all one for the Stuff happens box I think TD

Warranties are irrelevant customers need to read carefully what they cover and more importantly what they don't.

A quality longstanding install shop will likely give a more extensive warranty than any film manufacturer.

Over 14 years I have yet to see any manufacturer warranty that means anything worthwhile to a consumer.

From the installer end many manufacturers will support there key vendors otherwise they can be hit and miss (whatever is claimed)

This my be my first post on here as I try to steer clear of forums for just this reason, but how can you put up photos of someone's work to emphasize you're point or 'out' someone when you base your argument on 'possible' flaws from a photograph. I'm afraid you render your entire post pointless. Factless conjecture is what is wrong with forums these days. You may well be very educated in this field but I'm afraid you are not showing it.

My point of posting the photo was to show a possible defect and see if there was any possible explanation given to what it is since it does not look to be paint related. Nobody is going to his shop to watch the work for a week to point anything out, so a photo is all we got. Since I stated it is very hard to find a flaw on photos, an explanation of those marks should be easy to explain since it is so blatant. There was no explanation given just a defense which proves my point to me. Flawless don't happen period, not 100% of everyday. I won't post anymore responses since I am satisfied and there no point arguing with someone that claims flawless installs.

Still struggling Eh? Blatant lol there is nothing there save your febrile imaginings you want there to be something so you are determined to see something that doesn't exist from a low res photo off a phone

Heh if that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy knock yourself out

I have a question, if all of your installs are perfect then why aren't you taking better photos that are much more close up than the ones you have? I went through your website and do not see any photos that are close enough to make anything out. If I were on here claiming I do PERFECT installs every single time I better have a LOT of pictures taken up close to prove it. You might also take some pics of the install process as I have seen first hand installers taking pics of the car pre install and saying those were the finished results. I for one do not believe in perfection. I think there is always going to be a defect somewhere. Hell I can walk around ANY CAR MADE and find a defect in the paint somewhere. Painting is done in a clean room environment is very controlled conditions and they do not even get perfection. Find it hard to believe that not only do you get it but every single time. Throw some pics of an install in progress with some high res pics of the finished install up close and at different angles and I wont think you are completely full of yourself. I am sure as hell not flying all the way over there to look at installs... and you will find no one else will either. So lets get those pics coming so you can prove us all wrong.

Firstly that image was not on the official company site

Second the member of staff concerned put it on Instagram and ran it through filters to achieve her desired look

There are plenty of hi red images out there if people wanted to see them and a number of zoomed ones.

Seems that several on here refuse to accept my point that anyone can deliver to these standards

Something I have said repeatedly

For the record let me restate we never talk a clients expectations down

Other than that I am repeating myself so exiting this thread

Cheers

I used to think a perfect install was out of reach...too many variables that would effect the install I had (I thought)no control over. One by one, I began taking these out of the mix and results improved. One of the last problems had been bits of debris under the film. Last year I got the floor of my shop resurfaced and that pretty much took care of that issue. Now I was down to just those little triangles you get sometimes where you had fingers that had to be worked down. I used to think that was an acceptable flaw, I mean come on...you had to have your face laying a certain way on the hood in a certain light to see it so that's acceptable right? Once you think something is acceptable, you stop trying to solve that issue because you don't see it as a problem anymore.

That not only applies to the installers, but to the kit designers as well. A well designed pattern will install perfectly without distorting the adhesive, if you don't fight the film, it doesn't fight back. That fact became clear a few months ago when we began installing some of the same patterns Tango2 uses. If he says that his installs are coming out perfect, he may well be right because ours have stepped up a noticeable notch. Now there's no way I'm going to say any of my installs are perfect, but the ones we have been putting out lately have been close enough that I stopped looking.

Thank you for that

The less you have to fight the film the better job you can do and the better the result will be

It's what I was aiming at when I said earlier any installer is capable of this its just accepting it's possible and starting from the right places

Designs film choice and self belief:)

Cheers

I know I said I wouldn't post again, but I'm down for the drama.

Good posts Supreme and Bham.

To Tango...

• You don't do flawless installations, definition just incase you need it...without any blemishes or imperfections; perfect.
• This means there is not 1 single spec of dirt/dust/lint under not 1 PPF job you or any other installer you have ever done...really?
• Stop having other people create accounts just to help back you...just suspicious that Slippedup joined today, only applied to this post, and also located in the UK.

Just sayin...this is now my last post along with not reading any responses.

Typical cut and run after trying to make a case by throwing a photo out there that you misinterpret to make your case

I have learned that lighting high spots on a low res image can create any manner of optical effects and they don't prove anything

Zoomed in Hi res is a different story

All you found was a photographic artefact but are so determined to try and prove me wrong you had to pull something out of your ass

The reality is what it is whether anyone agrees or not we will continue hitting these standards and you can carry on assuming it's all fine and talking down customers expectations let's see how many of us are still here in another 10 years

This my be my first post on here as I try to steer clear of forums for just this reason, but how can you put up photos of someone's work to emphasize you're point or 'out' someone when you base your argument on 'possible' flaws from a photograph. I'm afraid you render your entire post pointless. Factless conjecture is what is wrong with forums these days. You may well be very educated in this field but I'm afraid you are not showing it.

My point of posting the photo was to show a possible defect and see if there was any possible explanation given to what it is since it does not look to be paint related. Nobody is going to his shop to watch the work for a week to point anything out, so a photo is all we got. Since I stated it is very hard to find a flaw on photos, an explanation of those marks should be easy to explain since it is so blatant. There was no explanation given just a defense which proves my point to me. Flawless don't happen period, not 100% of everyday. I won't post anymore responses since I am satisfied and there no point arguing with someone that claims flawless installs.

Heh if that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy knock yourself out

Tango may I ask where you are located? Are you the shop owner or an installer or both?

14 years of this teaches you what can be done rather than what folk believe.

And to address another posters point this is not about boasting or chest beating this is about our refusal to believe that compromises in install is a necessary part of what we all do

I hear that used every day as an excuse to not up the game

As I said higher standards mean high revenue and higher repeat business.

Film improves every year there is no reason why we cannot do the same at the coal face.

Feel free I will host you if you are serious

Drop me a pm

Cheers

You are completely wrong

Firstly we have never cut on the car Not in our entire history second there are no install flaws on that car

I trust you have taken that up with the client concerned

I am afraid your photo interpret ion skills leave a great deal to be desired

Possible is not the same as actual

If that's the best you have try harder

In 14 years there is not one single documented instance of us cutting on the car

Like I said climb on a plane and check for yourself

Many players including those from Xpel Suntek and 3m have crawled all over our work over the years and never found any flaws in the work in progress

Cheers

Like I said I could be wrong. Also never said anything about cutting on the car...could be a gouge from tucking it in under the light. Either way I am glad you have the confidence and hope it helps to sell the jobs. With that being said, flawless still don't happen.

Well given it was a precut kit and not tucked under the light then you were wrong yet again

The sun shines directly onto vehicles in that position when the shutter is up for inspection

And given it was taken on an employees phone the resolution would tell you nothing

I had an installer and trainer who has been in the industry for 19 years with us for two weeks prior to Christmas he came in not believing it either

He left with a different view on what is achievable especially with these new films

Anyone on here can do likewise it's simply a desire to push the envelope and refusing to believe they are capable of delivering it that holds some installers back

If you don't believe in yourself than it will never be possible.

The more of us that aim for these standards and achieve them the more the industry will grow and the better yield per job everyone can enjoy

Cheers

I'm coming to your shop on vacation, so I can get some training. Lol

You are completely wrong

Firstly we have never cut on the car Not in our entire history second there are no install flaws on that car

I trust you have taken that up with the client concerned

I am afraid your photo interpret ion skills leave a great deal to be desired

Possible is not the same as actual

If that's the best you have try harder

In 14 years there is not one single documented instance of us cutting on the car

Like I said climb on a plane and check for yourself

Many players including those from Xpel Suntek and 3m have crawled all over our work over the years and never found any flaws in the work in progress

Cheers

Like I said I could be wrong. Also never said anything about cutting on the car...could be a gouge from tucking it in under the light. Either way I am glad you have the confidence and hope it helps to sell the jobs. With that being said, flawless still don't happen.

Well given it was a precut kit and not tucked under the light then you were wrong yet again

The sun shines directly onto vehicles in that position when the shutter is up for inspection

And given it was taken on an employees phone the resolution would tell you nothing

I had an installer and trainer who has been in the industry for 19 years with us for two weeks prior to Christmas he came in not believing it either

He left with a different view on what is achievable especially with these new films

Anyone on here can do likewise it's simply a desire to push the envelope and refusing to believe they are capable of delivering it that holds some installers back

If you don't believe in yourself than it will never be possible.

The more of us that aim for these standards and achieve them the more the industry will grow and the better yield per job everyone can enjoy

Cheers

I'm coming to your shop on vacation, so I can get some training. Lol

You are completely wrong

Firstly we have never cut on the car Not in our entire history second there are no install flaws on that car

I trust you have taken that up with the client concerned

I am afraid your photo interpret ion skills leave a great deal to be desired

Possible is not the same as actual

If that's the best you have try harder

In 14 years there is not one single documented instance of us cutting on the car

Like I said climb on a plane and check for yourself

Many players including those from Xpel Suntek and 3m have crawled all over our work over the years and never found any flaws in the work in progress

Cheers

Like I said I could be wrong. Also never said anything about cutting on the car...could be a gouge from tucking it in under the light. Either way I am glad you have the confidence and hope it helps to sell the jobs. With that being said, flawless still don't happen.

The sun shines directly onto vehicles in that position when the shutter is up for inspection

And given it was taken on an employees phone the resolution would tell you nothing

I had an installer and trainer who has been in the industry for 19 years with us for two weeks prior to Christmas he came in not believing it either

He left with a different view on what is achievable especially with these new films

Anyone on here can do likewise it's simply a desire to push the envelope and refusing to believe they are capable of delivering it that holds some installers back

If you don't believe in yourself than it will never be possible.

The more of us that aim for these standards and achieve them the more the industry will grow and the better yield per job everyone can enjoy

Cheers

You are completely wrong

Firstly we have never cut on the car Not in our entire history second there are no install flaws on that car

I trust you have taken that up with the client concerned

I am afraid your photo interpret ion skills leave a great deal to be desired

Possible is not the same as actual

If that's the best you have try harder

In 14 years there is not one single documented instance of us cutting on the car

Like I said climb on a plane and check for yourself

Many players including those from Xpel Suntek and 3m have crawled all over our work over the years and never found any flaws in the work in progress

Cheers

Look any installer can achieve perfect installations it just requires that an installer be their own worst critic

Accepting that they don't exist is a compromise any of us choose to believe.

It's just a case of accepting the pain of binning film till you tune the skill set

Folk either accept that or not if you are happy with your standards that is all that matters we take a different view long term it pays off with better morale no callbacks due to installer error so better margins overall.

Yes there is a perfect install and they are done on a daily basis by a number of install operations

Happy to challenge anyone to come to my shop and see complete coverage installs every day without a single flaw and we are not alone in this

Why should a paying customer be expected to lower his expectations

Plus IMHO the most demanding clients are the catalyst that fuels your business

Exceed their standards and you will never be short of clients

I would not accept any installation defects we as well as others do flawless installs every single day if your installer is talking your expectations down like this find a better one.

I seriously doubt that anyone does flawless installs. I have seen flaws in every install I have ever seen. But to say they only fix "major" flaws is not a good business practice. Maybe and I hope, they mean because of the opticoat being applied previously? It's hard to warranty something like that as it might cause major install issues.

Happy to prove it If you want to get on a plane and Fly out of the US