I can easily disagree with you there. I used Llumar for over 7 years, switched to Suntek just over a year ago. When we first got Suntek in, I DID put them side by side on some sample windows to see what the difference was. HP30/ATR30, HP15/ATR15, INF35/PP35. I could not tell the difference. Then I laid the invoices from Llumar next to the ones from Suntek, and I saw a HUGE difference. By the way, my expectations are far from mediocre. As far as flat film, I don't know. I don't do much flat glass (yet). Heck, I couldn't tell you what any numbers were right now.