How Long Does an install normally take?

[junn99]

I have only been installing ppf film for only a less than one year and have been using 3m scotchgard film, and it usually takes me like 4-5 hours to do a hood,fender,mirrors. I just got the sample of suntek ppf and did a bumper with it and did that in about an hour and half on a 2012 camry se. which was alot easier but im unsure of the quality like most of your guys on here.

So my question to you guys is what time frame should I be working towards on completing a job? I'm not saying that I want to be the fastest guy on the block but I have no idea what most installer time frame is.

[Guest Invisibra.net]

I don't look at time. I look at finished quality.

So, if a job takes me a full day to do and the customer is totally happy when he picks up his car, then I took long enough to do the job. If the customer is not happy, then I didn't do a good job. (This hasn't happened to me yet.)

But, if you are working for a dealership, & need to get it done, because they don't care how it looks, then probably 2 hours, or maybe 3 per vehicle, & you need to move on to the next job.

[PPFdistributing]

He is right. Depends on what you are doing to the car and who you are doing it for. Dealership work should take between 1.5-2hrs. But thats for your standard coverage. With Scotchguard, you are going to have a longer install. Since the film does not stretch, 4 hrs. sounds about right. For the rest of the films on the market that do stretch, usually you can shave off some time because it stretches. I find that little things help shave off time when it comes to the install. If you are wrapping edges, we use scissors to trim off what excess we don't want and wrap the rest underneath the hood. Having a portable table with shop clamps allows you to make a 2 person job into one. When you can shave 5 min here and 5 min there, it can make for a better install so you are not wasting your time and focus on more troublesome areas. But it also differs in area too. I mean in CO, they usually bulk the install and they can get away with less than 18" coverage on the hood. That would never fly here in MA.

[junn99]

thx for the replies guys, I have been tinted windows for over 11 years now and have pretty much mastered that craft. I wish I would have jumped on the ppf bandwagon long ago, but I guess better late then never..lol. I have done about 20 kits now and always get excited when I get another opportunity to do another kit. Quality over Quantity.

[Guest Invisibra.net]

So today, I did a 2012 VW Passat, 24" hood, mirrors, headlights, bumper in an hour and 20 minutes. I think if I did another one I could get it down to an hour total.

Blows me away. I would be more than 3 hours on this job doing it custom, hand-trimmed. No wonder you pattern, pre-cut kit sellers are so popular. It has more edge gaps than I like, but you cannot argue with the ease, & speed of the installation. The customer wanted it cheap, so that's what we did.

[Guest XPEL Tim]

I don't mean to sound like the contrarian here, but I disagree with many points here.

For one, in my 16 years of experience, I have found that installation quality and installation time are not inversely related. Just the opposite, in fact. Unlike many other products, I find that (within reasonable limits) the quicker the installation is performed, the better the result. The main reason being that the more you fiddle around with the film during installation (regardless of your film brand of choice), the worse it will look in the end. This is probably because when an installation takes a long period of time, it usually is the result of inexperience reading the film, meaning that the installer is caught up cramming down excessive fingers, trying to eradicate bubbles, or over stretching areas that didn't need to be that way in the first place had he/she been experienced enough to know what was going on. Once you can confidently read the film and let it tell you exactly what needs to be done without thinking, the installation will be vastly quicker and the end result will be far better than otherwise.

Secondly, I don't think coverage on a hood or fenders dictates the amount of time the installation takes. If your squeegee technique is up to par, it takes only seconds longer to squeegee down a full hood vs. a 24 inch. Wrapping the edges takes longer on a full front, yes. But even that, with proper technique, takes maybe 10 minutes more on a full vs. a 24 inch to get the job done perfectly. In all, a full hood and fenders should add maybe 15 minutes max to the installation over a 24 inch. If it takes longer, something is wrong with the technique being used.

On the kit issue, it all depends on the pattern and the technique used to install it. A great pattern that is installed using the same ethos as the designer that created it will produce an end product with zero gaps at any edge. Most of the time, patterns in the market were either poorly designed, or (more often) the installer has no idea how it was designed to be installed in the first place (poor or no training on the KITS rather than just the technique). Most installers don't realize that a good pattern installed in a different way than it was designed will result in a poor installation. Large gaps, things not lining up, trimming and all the rest are usually (even with some of the less experienced design houses) because it is being installed in a different way than the pattern was designed.

Even then, at least with our patterns, wrapping the edges is an option for those that want a seamless install...it's just a matter of clicking a button. And the upside to a great kit is that all edges that MUST be there (such as around parking sensors, bumper/fender joints, headlight washer holes in some cases, etc.) are perfectly machine cut and consistent every single time they are put on the car without any risk to the paint. The only other option to make it absolutely perfect in every way is to remove every hinderance that prohibits wrapping every single edge. And, yes, we did that recently on a 918 Spyder Edition 911 Turbo a few weeks ago (I'll post the video on that when it is complete). This requires not only removing lights and tow hook covers, but removing the bumpers themselves, taking them apart, and mounting them on a jig so the installation can be truly seamless. I call that the psycho wrap, because to want to go there, you have to be a little crazy as well as being fairly well heeled Point is, you don't have to bulk something to make it sweet. You just have to have some skill and some options.

To the original poster, your biggest challenge is learning the trade, It's not that different from tinting, upholstery, vinyl graphics or painting a car. How many hack jobs have you seen any any or all of those industries? You won't learn it over night, but the better you get and the more you know about it, the better your installations will become and the faster you will do them (hence the more money you will make). Don't be afraid to redo something that is not right! It may cost you some film and time, but in the end your reputation will be intact and that will pay dividends down the road.

To answer your original question, your goal for a frontal install should be 2 hours or less out the door (assuming it is a new car) whether or not it is a full or a partial. At our shop here in San Antonio, our two largest volume dealers are Land Rover and Porsche (odd as that might sound given their relative volume to some other manufacturers). Land Rover gets a mini hood kit (just to the body line on the hood to obscure the edge), fenders, mirrors, and full bumper, Porsche gets full fronts on almost every unit. They both end up taking about the same amount of time, and on both we remove ALL emblems (including the Rovers), remove the lights, wrap the edges and all the the rest.

We spend the exact same amount of time doing retail or dealer installations, as they all get the same treatment. We believe in doing it one way regardless of who is paying, because in the end no matter who they bought the product through, the consumer is the judge and can make or break everyone's success. Doing a half ass install for a dealer (because they pay you less) will end up hurting yourself and the industry in the end simply because the recipient of said product will be dissatisfied. It doesn't matter if they are dissatisfied with you or the dealer, their impression is that paint protection sucks and isn't worth the money. My advice to every installer is to suck it up and do the best installation you can possibly do for everyone, regardless of how long it takes or how many times you have to redo it. With enough practice, all of the difficulty you are encountering today will be in your rearview mirror, your neighbors in the industry will applaud you for it, and you will have the best reputation in your city in a very short period of time.

[Guest Invisibra.net]

I don't mean to sound like the contrarian here, but I disagree with many points here....

Point is, you don't have to bulk something to make it sweet. You just have to have some skill and some options.

Wow, I don't think I've actually been slammed before on a public forum. Thanks for that Tim and Xpel.

I'm pretty sure my reputation from customer feedback, in forums, on Google, Yelp, word of mouth, etc speak up for my reputation and quality of work.

I'm pretty sure that at the end of a day, when I've spent the entire day doing a custom installation, that my customer is getting the 1% top quality installation on the market.

I think you have missed a few 'details' in your estimate on the time it takes to do installations, that don't apply to the average 90% of us out here installers.

1. Dealer vs Retail. How can it take the exact same time, when a customer 'didn't know' that he has been parking near a tree that has dropped sap on his car for the past month. After doing the 'customer service' thing, & cleaning the junk off his car for 1/2 hour, the job can now truely begin. I don't have a helper to do this for me. That's all on me.

2. Dealer vs Retail. Not many of my retail customers bring me 10 Porsche cars in a week. Yes, If I was doing nothing but Range Rovers & Porsche's for a dealership, I'd get quite fast at them. Knocking them down with serious speed, getting to know the exact pattern of lock-down points for the computer cut pattern, & knowing that you gotta tug 'just this much' to get it on perfectly. However, when I work on 7 different cars, from 7 different years, with 7 different combinations of the coverage that the customer is interested in getting, It just cannot go on as quick & smooth as all that.

3. Dealer vs Retal. The dealer is not going to spend a lot of time inspecting the finished product. SO, if there is a flaw in the film. (I mean, fish eye, factory lines, etc) it will probably be ignored, or unnoticed. However, I've had plenty of retail customers (Bless their picky souls) that have attached an eyeball to the film & dragged it back and forth across the car looking for defects. Can you REALLY say that you consider those two instances to be exactly the same at your company? What about those 'psycho wrap' customers. Do you really say that the final product is EXACTLY the same as the Porsche that you took 2 hours doing, Other than the wrapped edges? (As far as if there is a fiber or speck under the film, or a fish-eye down on a rocker, etc)

4. Multiple installers. I and MANY of my fellow installers are one person shops. My wife will help me to carry the full-hood size piece of film and lay it on a hood. But otherwise, I do the full squeegee, & trimming, & the rest of the installation. When I was there at your shop going through the Xpel training, a corvette came in. I saw 2 or 3 guys going nuts on the vehicle, applying as a group. My trainer stepped out to help, while I was tinkering with a BMW hood. You guys knocked out that corvette bumper in like 25 or 30 minutes. I'd imagine if things had gone badly, it would have taken 40 minutes. I don't have that luxury at this time. Maybe if I get a dealership that is willing to pay a decent amount for installation I'd get a squeegee slinging helper and that would knock down the time.

5. Real life. I sometimes have customer swing by for an estimate, or to show me a problem with their film. (Such as driving up on a curb fragged the bottom edge of their bra, & they need it trimmed back) If I JUST stretched the film around the front of a bumper, and have squeegeed it partially down, then I cannot tell the customer to just stand there for another 15 minutes while I keep messing with this bumper. I have to go help him. Get a phone call, & they are asking 100 questions about the history of paint protection film, & all the details about what are the differences between brand X and brand Y? The UPS guy swinging by, or the Neighbor stopping to tell me about his kid's soccer accomplishments, etc. You guys have how many people on site that can handle these multiple tasks at the same time? I don't and cannot live in a sealed environment, doing nothing but installing film all day, as an independent business owner.

6. There is more than just squeegeeing film. Yes, I can squeegee down a full hood in just a few more minutes than it takes to squeegee a 24" piece of film. If the job was done 'before' and 'after' the squeegee, then that would be all there was to it. But, I HOPE you are cleaning the under-edge of that 4 or 5 year old car's hood with a degreaser. Engines vaporize oil residues, & the film will not stick to the underside of a hood in many cases. OR, it's a brand new BMW with that gooey waxy crap leaking out from under the hood itself, & coating the edges. That takes actual fingernail scrubbing to get off, & then clean down to paint. Then, the before-mentioned bug splatters, bird droppings, tree sap, or generally rough feeling paint. Those items do not clean themselves off, & in some cases, it takes quite a bit of time & effort to clean off. Once it is clean & ready, THEN, yes! It takes about the same time as the dealership job to do.

7. Random issues: Jeff has posted on here, how much white cars suck to do, because they show EVERYTHING, such as dark fibers, black specks, etc. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it happens 2 or 3 times in a row. You lift the film to get one speck or fiber, & lay it down to discover another one in another spot. I keep my shop VERY clean, but cannot seal it like a computer chip room. You are correct that the more you finagle with the film, the more likely for more problems, but that has nothing to do with the skill of the installer. It adds time, & it sometimes doubles the time and costs a big hunk of film. BUT, is the installer willing to take that time & material hit, in order to do the highest quality job they can? Many do not, so they get fast installations, & HOPE the customer does not point out the issues. Those are the customers that eventually come to me. & then get their next 4 or 5 cars done over the next few years by me.

I'd like to wrap this up by saying that I've given my honest opinions on the different films on the market, & on other products such as gel, etc. I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything bad about individuals. In fact, there is a thread where I said that Xpel as a company has always been professional, & has treated me personally fairly.

I cannot say that any more.

I will try VERY hard to not do any business with the Xpel corp into the future. I like working with their Gel, once it has been filtered of debris, but will be looking to other sources from now on. I recently also needed some 60" film badly for a couple full hood jobs that were coming up. I broke my rule, & ordered 17 feet of Ultimate. I was charged $467.16 for 17 feet of film (Plus 14.84 fright & handling). Wow. Now if I had been told that I was getting charged around $100 or so just to cut 17' off the roll, that would be one thing. But I didn't know until it was shipped & charged to my credit card. I always go over price with my customers BEFORE doing the work, to make sure they know what it will be. Every time I've gotten a custom cut size of Venture Shield, there was no up-charge... At all. Just the price per square foot.

Do I sound pissed? yup.

Original post by Xpel Tim.

Yesterday, 09:36 PM

I don't mean to sound like the contrarian here, but I disagree with many points here.

For one, in my 16 years of experience, I have found that installation quality and installation time are not inversely related. Just the opposite, in fact. Unlike many other products, I find that (within reasonable limits) the quicker the installation is performed, the better the result. The main reason being that the more you fiddle around with the film during installation (regardless of your film brand of choice), the worse it will look in the end. This is probably because when an installation takes a long period of time, it usually is the result of inexperience reading the film, meaning that the installer is caught up cramming down excessive fingers, trying to eradicate bubbles, or over stretching areas that didn't need to be that way in the first place had he/she been experienced enough to know what was going on. Once you can confidently read the film and let it tell you exactly what needs to be done without thinking, the installation will be vastly quicker and the end result will be far better than otherwise.

Secondly, I don't think coverage on a hood or fenders dictates the amount of time the installation takes. If your squeegee technique is up to par, it takes only seconds longer to squeegee down a full hood vs. a 24 inch. Wrapping the edges takes longer on a full front, yes. But even that, with proper technique, takes maybe 10 minutes more on a full vs. a 24 inch to get the job done perfectly. In all, a full hood and fenders should add maybe 15 minutes max to the installation over a 24 inch. If it takes longer, something is wrong with the technique being used.

On the kit issue, it all depends on the pattern and the technique used to install it. A great pattern that is installed using the same ethos as the designer that created it will produce an end product with zero gaps at any edge. Most of the time, patterns in the market were either poorly designed, or (more often) the installer has no idea how it was designed to be installed in the first place (poor or no training on the KITS rather than just the technique). Most installers don't realize that a good pattern installed in a different way than it was designed will result in a poor installation. Large gaps, things not lining up, trimming and all the rest are usually (even with some of the less experienced design houses) because it is being installed in a different way than the pattern was designed.

Even then, at least with our patterns, wrapping the edges is an option for those that want a seamless install...it's just a matter of clicking a button. And the upside to a great kit is that all edges that MUST be there (such as around parking sensors, bumper/fender joints, headlight washer holes in some cases, etc.) are perfectly machine cut and consistent every single time they are put on the car without any risk to the paint. The only other option to make it absolutely perfect in every way is to remove every hinderance that prohibits wrapping every single edge. And, yes, we did that recently on a 918 Spyder Edition 911 Turbo a few weeks ago (I'll post the video on that when it is complete). This requires not only removing lights and tow hook covers, but removing the bumpers themselves, taking them apart, and mounting them on a jig so the installation can be truly seamless. I call that the psycho wrap, because to want to go there, you have to be a little crazy as well as being fairly well heeled Point is, you don't have to bulk something to make it sweet. You just have to have some skill and some options.

To the original poster, your biggest challenge is learning the trade, It's not that different from tinting, upholstery, vinyl graphics or painting a car. How many hack jobs have you seen any any or all of those industries? You won't learn it over night, but the better you get and the more you know about it, the better your installations will become and the faster you will do them (hence the more money you will make). Don't be afraid to redo something that is not right! It may cost you some film and time, but in the end your reputation will be intact and that will pay dividends down the road.

To answer your original question, your goal for a frontal install should be 2 hours or less out the door (assuming it is a new car) whether or not it is a full or a partial. At our shop here in San Antonio, our two largest volume dealers are Land Rover and Porsche (odd as that might sound given their relative volume to some other manufacturers). Land Rover gets a mini hood kit (just to the body line on the hood to obscure the edge), fenders, mirrors, and full bumper, Porsche gets full fronts on almost every unit. They both end up taking about the same amount of time, and on both we remove ALL emblems (including the Rovers), remove the lights, wrap the edges and all the the rest.

We spend the exact same amount of time doing retail or dealer installations, as they all get the same treatment. We believe in doing it one way regardless of who is paying, because in the end no matter who they bought the product through, the consumer is the judge and can make or break everyone's success. Doing a half ass install for a dealer (because they pay you less) will end up hurting yourself and the industry in the end simply because the recipient of said product will be dissatisfied. It doesn't matter if they are dissatisfied with you or the dealer, their impression is that paint protection sucks and isn't worth the money. My advice to every installer is to suck it up and do the best installation you can possibly do for everyone, regardless of how long it takes or how many times you have to redo it. With enough practice, all of the difficulty you are encountering today will be in your rearview mirror, your neighbors in the industry will applaud you for it, and you will have the best reputation in your city in a very short period of time.

Edited by XPEL_Tim, Yesterday, 09:39 PM.

[PPFdistributing]

an hour and 20, thats some quick installing bud. Yes, depending on the kit, having a precut kit saves you mucho time. Mainly on bumpers of course. it also depends on the cutting program too. some libraries are larger than others in regards to what's available. That's why we have two cutting programs just in case. and this has been quite the year for the industry since a lot of models had some style changes on the exterior. Keeps those pattern drawers employed. call it job security if you can draw good patterns.

[Guest XPEL Tim]

I don't mean to sound like the contrarian here, but I disagree with many points here....

Point is, you don't have to bulk something to make it sweet. You just have to have some skill and some options.

Wow, I don't think I've actually been slammed before on a public forum. Thanks for that Tim and Xpel.

I'm pretty sure my reputation from customer feedback, in forums, on Google, Yelp, word of mouth, etc speak up for my reputation and quality of work.

I'm pretty sure that at the end of a day, when I've spent the entire day doing a custom installation, that my customer is getting the 1% top quality installation on the market.

I think you have missed a few 'details' in your estimate on the time it takes to do installations, that don't apply to the average 90% of us out here installers.

1. Dealer vs Retail. How can it take the exact same time, when a customer 'didn't know' that he has been parking near a tree that has dropped sap on his car for the past month. After doing the 'customer service' thing, & cleaning the junk off his car for 1/2 hour, the job can now truely begin. I don't have a helper to do this for me. That's all on me.

2. Dealer vs Retail. Not many of my retail customers bring me 10 Porsche cars in a week. Yes, If I was doing nothing but Range Rovers & Porsche's for a dealership, I'd get quite fast at them. Knocking them down with serious speed, getting to know the exact pattern of lock-down points for the computer cut pattern, & knowing that you gotta tug 'just this much' to get it on perfectly. However, when I work on 7 different cars, from 7 different years, with 7 different combinations of the coverage that the customer is interested in getting, It just cannot go on as quick & smooth as all that.

3. Dealer vs Retal. The dealer is not going to spend a lot of time inspecting the finished product. SO, if there is a flaw in the film. (I mean, fish eye, factory lines, etc) it will probably be ignored, or unnoticed. However, I've had plenty of retail customers (Bless their picky souls) that have attached an eyeball to the film & dragged it back and forth across the car looking for defects. Can you REALLY say that you consider those two instances to be exactly the same at your company? What about those 'psycho wrap' customers. Do you really say that the final product is EXACTLY the same as the Porsche that you took 2 hours doing, Other than the wrapped edges? (As far as if there is a fiber or speck under the film, or a fish-eye down on a rocker, etc)

4. Multiple installers. I and MANY of my fellow installers are one person shops. My wife will help me to carry the full-hood size piece of film and lay it on a hood. But otherwise, I do the full squeegee, & trimming, & the rest of the installation. When I was there at your shop going through the Xpel training, a corvette came in. I saw 2 or 3 guys going nuts on the vehicle, applying as a group. My trainer stepped out to help, while I was tinkering with a BMW hood. You guys knocked out that corvette bumper in like 25 or 30 minutes. I'd imagine if things had gone badly, it would have taken 40 minutes. I don't have that luxury at this time. Maybe if I get a dealership that is willing to pay a decent amount for installation I'd get a squeegee slinging helper and that would knock down the time.

5. Real life. I sometimes have customer swing by for an estimate, or to show me a problem with their film. (Such as driving up on a curb fragged the bottom edge of their bra, & they need it trimmed back) If I JUST stretched the film around the front of a bumper, and have squeegeed it partially down, then I cannot tell the customer to just stand there for another 15 minutes while I keep messing with this bumper. I have to go help him. Get a phone call, & they are asking 100 questions about the history of paint protection film, & all the details about what are the differences between brand X and brand Y? The UPS guy swinging by, or the Neighbor stopping to tell me about his kid's soccer accomplishments, etc. You guys have how many people on site that can handle these multiple tasks at the same time? I don't and cannot live in a sealed environment, doing nothing but installing film all day, as an independent business owner.

6. There is more than just squeegeeing film. Yes, I can squeegee down a full hood in just a few more minutes than it takes to squeegee a 24" piece of film. If the job was done 'before' and 'after' the squeegee, then that would be all there was to it. But, I HOPE you are cleaning the under-edge of that 4 or 5 year old car's hood with a degreaser. Engines vaporize oil residues, & the film will not stick to the underside of a hood in many cases. OR, it's a brand new BMW with that gooey waxy crap leaking out from under the hood itself, & coating the edges. That takes actual fingernail scrubbing to get off, & then clean down to paint. Then, the before-mentioned bug splatters, bird droppings, tree sap, or generally rough feeling paint. Those items do not clean themselves off, & in some cases, it takes quite a bit of time & effort to clean off. Once it is clean & ready, THEN, yes! It takes about the same time as the dealership job to do.

7. Random issues: Jeff has posted on here, how much white cars suck to do, because they show EVERYTHING, such as dark fibers, black specks, etc. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it happens 2 or 3 times in a row. You lift the film to get one speck or fiber, & lay it down to discover another one in another spot. I keep my shop VERY clean, but cannot seal it like a computer chip room. You are correct that the more you finagle with the film, the more likely for more problems, but that has nothing to do with the skill of the installer. It adds time, & it sometimes doubles the time and costs a big hunk of film. BUT, is the installer willing to take that time & material hit, in order to do the highest quality job they can? Many do not, so they get fast installations, & HOPE the customer does not point out the issues. Those are the customers that eventually come to me. & then get their next 4 or 5 cars done over the next few years by me.

I'd like to wrap this up by saying that I've given my honest opinions on the different films on the market, & on other products such as gel, etc. I'm pretty sure I haven't said anything bad about individuals. In fact, there is a thread where I said that Xpel as a company has always been professional, & has treated me personally fairly.

I cannot say that any more.

I will try VERY hard to not do any business with the Xpel corp into the future. I like working with their Gel, once it has been filtered of debris, but will be looking to other sources from now on. I recently also needed some 60" film badly for a couple full hood jobs that were coming up. I broke my rule, & ordered 17 feet of Ultimate. I was charged $467.16 for 17 feet of film (Plus 14.84 fright & handling). Wow. Now if I had been told that I was getting charged around $100 or so just to cut 17' off the roll, that would be one thing. But I didn't know until it was shipped & charged to my credit card. I always go over price with my customers BEFORE doing the work, to make sure they know what it will be. Every time I've gotten a custom cut size of Venture Shield, there was no up-charge... At all. Just the price per square foot.

Do I sound pissed? yup.

Original post by Xpel Tim.

Yesterday, 09:36 PM

I don't mean to sound like the contrarian here, but I disagree with many points here.

For one, in my 16 years of experience, I have found that installation quality and installation time are not inversely related. Just the opposite, in fact. Unlike many other products, I find that (within reasonable limits) the quicker the installation is performed, the better the result. The main reason being that the more you fiddle around with the film during installation (regardless of your film brand of choice), the worse it will look in the end. This is probably because when an installation takes a long period of time, it usually is the result of inexperience reading the film, meaning that the installer is caught up cramming down excessive fingers, trying to eradicate bubbles, or over stretching areas that didn't need to be that way in the first place had he/she been experienced enough to know what was going on. Once you can confidently read the film and let it tell you exactly what needs to be done without thinking, the installation will be vastly quicker and the end result will be far better than otherwise.

Secondly, I don't think coverage on a hood or fenders dictates the amount of time the installation takes. If your squeegee technique is up to par, it takes only seconds longer to squeegee down a full hood vs. a 24 inch. Wrapping the edges takes longer on a full front, yes. But even that, with proper technique, takes maybe 10 minutes more on a full vs. a 24 inch to get the job done perfectly. In all, a full hood and fenders should add maybe 15 minutes max to the installation over a 24 inch. If it takes longer, something is wrong with the technique being used.

On the kit issue, it all depends on the pattern and the technique used to install it. A great pattern that is installed using the same ethos as the designer that created it will produce an end product with zero gaps at any edge. Most of the time, patterns in the market were either poorly designed, or (more often) the installer has no idea how it was designed to be installed in the first place (poor or no training on the KITS rather than just the technique). Most installers don't realize that a good pattern installed in a different way than it was designed will result in a poor installation. Large gaps, things not lining up, trimming and all the rest are usually (even with some of the less experienced design houses) because it is being installed in a different way than the pattern was designed.

Even then, at least with our patterns, wrapping the edges is an option for those that want a seamless install...it's just a matter of clicking a button. And the upside to a great kit is that all edges that MUST be there (such as around parking sensors, bumper/fender joints, headlight washer holes in some cases, etc.) are perfectly machine cut and consistent every single time they are put on the car without any risk to the paint. The only other option to make it absolutely perfect in every way is to remove every hinderance that prohibits wrapping every single edge. And, yes, we did that recently on a 918 Spyder Edition 911 Turbo a few weeks ago (I'll post the video on that when it is complete). This requires not only removing lights and tow hook covers, but removing the bumpers themselves, taking them apart, and mounting them on a jig so the installation can be truly seamless. I call that the psycho wrap, because to want to go there, you have to be a little crazy as well as being fairly well heeled Point is, you don't have to bulk something to make it sweet. You just have to have some skill and some options.

To the original poster, your biggest challenge is learning the trade, It's not that different from tinting, upholstery, vinyl graphics or painting a car. How many hack jobs have you seen any any or all of those industries? You won't learn it over night, but the better you get and the more you know about it, the better your installations will become and the faster you will do them (hence the more money you will make). Don't be afraid to redo something that is not right! It may cost you some film and time, but in the end your reputation will be intact and that will pay dividends down the road.

To answer your original question, your goal for a frontal install should be 2 hours or less out the door (assuming it is a new car) whether or not it is a full or a partial. At our shop here in San Antonio, our two largest volume dealers are Land Rover and Porsche (odd as that might sound given their relative volume to some other manufacturers). Land Rover gets a mini hood kit (just to the body line on the hood to obscure the edge), fenders, mirrors, and full bumper, Porsche gets full fronts on almost every unit. They both end up taking about the same amount of time, and on both we remove ALL emblems (including the Rovers), remove the lights, wrap the edges and all the the rest.

We spend the exact same amount of time doing retail or dealer installations, as they all get the same treatment. We believe in doing it one way regardless of who is paying, because in the end no matter who they bought the product through, the consumer is the judge and can make or break everyone's success. Doing a half ass install for a dealer (because they pay you less) will end up hurting yourself and the industry in the end simply because the recipient of said product will be dissatisfied. It doesn't matter if they are dissatisfied with you or the dealer, their impression is that paint protection sucks and isn't worth the money. My advice to every installer is to suck it up and do the best installation you can possibly do for everyone, regardless of how long it takes or how many times you have to redo it. With enough practice, all of the difficulty you are encountering today will be in your rearview mirror, your neighbors in the industry will applaud you for it, and you will have the best reputation in your city in a very short period of time.

Edited by XPEL_Tim, Yesterday, 09:39 PM.

The snippet of my post you quoted wasn't a slam on you, Norm. I was speaking to the original poster presenting the other side of your argument. I don't believe I called your skill into question anywhere in my post either. I simply showed another perspective.

As for the details you mention, most of the things you enumerated I did disclaim before quoting an install time. I said, "assuming it's a new car." Of course used cars will take more time. On those we commonly touch up chips, color sand and buff, clay bar, restore headlights and all kinds of other stuff. We do charge for that though.

I certainly agree that a car you do more of than another will get easier. I did factor that in to my number though, and that's not how long it takes one of our installers to do a car. We can usually do a complete install on one of those cars in about an hour and a half.

Maybe we just have the picky dealers, but ours know what to look for and nothing is allowed to slide. Nor would we want it to anyway, since it still has to make the consumer happy in the end.

We don't use multiple installers on a car unless there is nothing else for them to do (which hasn't been the case for a long while), or if they are helping another installer get a giant piece of film on to the hood. We currently have 3 dedicated installers (the designers don't perform the installations any more) and usually they do about 3 cars each. The rest of their time is spent picking up and delivering, talking to customers, etc. We also have a dedicated sales person and a receptionist. Everyone else here at XPEL has other work to do in their own departments and has nothing to do with install.

Again, sorry you took the post the wrong way, Norm. I wasn't trying to "slam" you. My point was to show the other side of the coin from a shop that does a considerable amount of volume, where much of it is high end, and where we use kits - illustrating that kits are not just for low end, "el-cheapo" installations. I think it's important to give all sides.

Edit: oh, and by the way, the "psycho wrap" WAS for our local dealership. ;)

[Guest Invisibra.net]

The thing is Tim,

I think a high percentage of the installers out there are the one or two person businesses. Having to answer phones, cut the film, take the time to be friends with the customer, explain the minor defects that all film has from time to time all adds up.

The installer that started this thread seems to be for sure in the one person business category.

So, telling him that it will take X time to do it, based on a large, high volume point of view is misleading. Your installers get to start the job, & run right through till finished, with minimal distractions. I think I express the much more likely scenario to someone in the poster's situation.

I probably should not have gone off on the other details, especially about what I considered to be gouging on the 17' of film I bought, but I'm still pretty mad about that.

Oh yea.. Original poster... Use a different film. The film you have been using is a pain. I really like the 2n'd film you mention.