X100 substitute, Llumar DR25 Curling

[treimche]

Saw quite a few posts about Llumar films curling and never had the issue until right now as I’m starting on a commercial job. Distributor just told me I should not be using badly shampoo and should only use X100 with this film. First I’ve ever heard that in all my years. The film is curling off the bottom of the glass and I need a fast solution to this issue. I can try overnighting some X100 but any suggestions in the meantime? 

[Tintguy1980]

No substitute for X100 that I am aware of other than vinegar. You'll soon nose why it's not a viable substitute.

 

Any kind of soap slows the chemical bonding action of LLumar's CDF adhesive.

 

You could precut the night before and roll each piece tightly, liner in, to assist in neutralizing the curl.

 

Others may chime in with their experiences.

 

 

[treimche]

Thanks for the reply. I think these rolls of tint are no good. I even tried straight water with a just tiny bit of baby shampoo plus a few drops of alcohol and the film still rolled right off the window. I’ve installed thousands of sq ft of this stuff only using water and a good amount of baby shampoo for slip, so something has definitely changed.  If the fix is using X100, then I wish they would have just said “hey now we require you to use X100 when installing this window film” and I would have done it. 

[Tintguy1980]

Request they ship you a new supply to complete the job, ensuring it does not come from the same lot number. They should also take back every bit you have left and issue a credit for the film you used as well.

 

Nothing has changed in terms of using X100 on their CDF products; apparently it's just not communicated like it was back in the days I was working. Sales and tech reps are responsible for ensuring installers of the product are well informed.

 

From what you've shared you have done all that can be done and if plain water and or alcohol mixed in results in curl, there is definitely a quality issue with the production run you have been furnished with.

 

Call it in and go from there.

 

Hopefully the client will understand.

[treimche]

I tried 2 rolls with different lot numbers, and had the same result.  It was rolling back from the factory cut edge of the roll.  Check out the pics, first pic was how badly it rolled back on itself after peeling up those 2 corners, this was probably 30 min after install and already seeing the edges curling off, 2nd pic was after straightening out the whole left side and it rolled itself that badly.  I have definitely messed up on some windows and had to remove/re-tint, but have NEVER seen something this curly.  This stuff is going back for a full refund. 

[doctor4766]

I have had some issues like this with Llumar films at times but not quite as bad as that looks.

Can I ask whether you allow the wet film to sit for a minute before you begin to squeegee the film out?

I remember that Llumar installation instructions called for this, to begin the adhesive activation.

And since most of us use a hard squeegee blade these days, it's possible that too much water is removed in the process for correct activation.

Just a thought...

[treimche]

1 hour ago, doctor4766 said:

I have had some issues like this with Llumar films at times but not quite as bad as that looks.

Can I ask whether you allow the wet film to sit for a minute before you begin to squeegee the film out?

I remember that Llumar installation instructions called for this, to begin the adhesive activation.

And since most of us use a hard squeegee blade these days, it's possible that too much water is removed in the process for correct activation.

Just a thought...

I would say the wet film sits for a minute or two.  I usually reverse roll the film, then roll it from top to bottom of the glass.  First squeegee pass light to medium pressure, starting at top middle and working down and to the sides, so the bottom part of the window has been sitting for a minute or two before being squeegeed.  Then I trim edges, and squeegee again same direction but with more pressure watching to make sure the water gets pushed out.

 

Regardless, I've been using the same process and water/slip for years with no issue, then suddenly this 

[doctor4766]

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. 

I'm possibly one of the worst for this as I tend to work quickly and often forget that it's a non-tacky film that we're dealing with. 

Occasionally though, we come across a roll that's maybe wound a little tight and doesn't want to sit on the glass as it should. My main experience with this has been on hotter than usual glass and my fix has been to wet the film again and re-squeegee but not as hard. This will leave some liquid behind to get the adhesive activated.

Works sometimes and sometimes it doesn't.

Fortunately, most of the time things go smoothly with Llumar products.

 

[Tintguy1980]

On 4/24/2023 at 9:53 PM, treimche said:

  This stuff is going back for a full refund. 

 

Yeah, that's totally unacceptable.

 

You may want to consider using a different DR film. I recently installed some Global DR Ceramic to my home and that stuff has zero curl ... even with the sun on the glass. It doesn't have the brownish look that LLumar's DR films have. Great clarity, liner releases easy with a scrap of tape and stays put with a soft squeegee pass before hitting it hard.

[Tintguy1980]

Here's specs to compare: