Laminated glass

January 21, 2007

dayum Vclimb. GOT SCHOOLED BY A MOFO THAT CAN'T DO A gti REAR WINDOW IN 1 PIECE.hahahahaha

I did it in one piece.

It's when I stripped and redid it later that I had to do it in 2 pieces.

January 21, 2007

I'm not disagreeing with you.
But a lower SA film will be SAFER on laminated IGU because SHADOWING will not be as dangerous.

I'm not saying SA is the ONLY thing in the world.

I'm saying that lower SA will be SAFER because it makes OTHER FACTORS effect the temperature difference less. If it's absorbing less and a shadow is present than the difference in temperature between the shadowed and exposed areas will less.

I am not preaching SA, SA, SA, SA. I'm simply saying a film with lower SA will be safer because it helps alleviate the stresses from other things.

Yes, lower SA's are more preferable than higher SA's, of course. You said that your supplier does not give you a F2G chart. Mine do, I have several. SA is not porportional to the likelyhood of breakage across the board. When you get into Laminated Glass, the game changes. Here are a few experts:

1) Shadowing has considerable impact on glass thermal stress because it causes uneven heating. Shadowing in the morning hours will raise stress the most. The three shadow categories are "Straight 1 point", "L 2 Points" or "T or V 3 points".

Just the nature of the shadow has a major impact on the likelyhood of breakage no matter what your SA is.

2) Altitude above sea level is a temperature related influence. At higher altitudes, nights are cooler, the air is clearer and morning sunlight is stronger. This means that in the morning the glass quickly changes from cold to warm and wide temperature differences form between shadowed and sunlit areas. Wide temperature differences from one spot to another create extra thermal stress. (+1-2 points)

Again, these points are added in addition to SA points...

3) Pane size as this grows, so do the chances of mechanical stress from the weight of the glass. Also, the greater the pane size, the greater will thermal expansion increase the dimensions of the pane, creating greater risk of mechanical stress from rigid framing materials.

Ad points here in additions to SA points. Low SA films can cause mechanical stress on large windows you can't just figure the lower your SA the better off you are.

What I am saying Dan is that it might not qualitfy to be "recommended" by the MFG no matter how low the SA is due to the glass conditions. One can't just hope or guess, you have to confirm with your MFG or they will leave you high and dry if there is breakage and it is discovered that F2G recommendations were ignored. With Laminated glass, this tends to be the case more often than not because people can't either identify it or they just treat it like clear annealed.

dayum Vclimb. GOT SCHOOLED BY A MOFO THAT CAN'T DO A gti REAR WINDOW IN 1 PIECE.hahahahaha

:hmmm Pipe down skippy and finish your popcorn. :lol2

January 21, 2007

I got your skippy,"RIGHT HERE"!!!

January 21, 2007

OMG, I said 19 ways, you still didn't get it.

Shadowing. Yes, it has a major impact on it.

Why? Because the part in the sun is ABSORBING the energy and turning it into heat. The side in the shadow is NOT absorbing it. Thus, creating a difference.

IF the film has lower SA the shadow will create LESS of a temperature difference.

I'm not saying ignore everything else. I'm saying the reason things make an impact on it are because of the SA.

That's why I mentioned zero SA. If it absorbs zero, there would be no difference in temperature. Even if it was 2 miles in the air with a V shadow. It's the SA that causes everything else to influence it.

We know the situation. Lami. We can assume a shadow. We know the altitude. Those will remain constant. What's more safe? A film with 40% SA or 30% SA? That's right, the lower SA film because it will generate less of a thermal difference.

January 22, 2007

OMG, I said 19 ways, you still didn't get it.

I said "I understand what you are saying" but it was probably more like 3 times. :beer

Films can affect the solar heat transfer to glass, more SA=more heat transfer, less SA=less heat transfer... I've understood that way before they even had glass breakage warranties. :popcorn Come to think of it, there was a time when SA percentages were something you had to call the MFG and get from engineering.

We know the situation. Lami. We can assume a shadow. We know the altitude. Those will remain constant. What's more safe? A film with 40% SA or 30% SA? That's right, the lower SA film because it will generate less of a thermal difference.

"What's more safe? More SA or Less?" :spit In some situations, even the 30% SA is unacceptable. You are saying one thing and I'm saying there is more to it than picking the lowest SA if you are looking for glass break coverage from your MFG... they have to approve and it must meet their criteria. You can look at it your way but glass conditions prevail over SA. Heck if the glass was clear tempered, then the SA would hardly matter at all.

A long time ago I used to do the same thing though but one day I put a piece of 70% on a window and it broke. :beer Yeah, the odds were better than putting 30% on but when it was all said and done, the glass still cracked...

micro-edge · January 22, 2007

I believe I would put silver 20 on it just so I wouldn't worry about it. Here's a pic of suntek silver 20, SA is only 33%.

January 22, 2007

I said "I understand what you are saying" but it was probably more like 3 times.
Films can affect the solar heat transfer to glass, more SA=more heat transfer, less SA=less heat transfer... I've understood that way before they even had glass breakage warranties. Come to think of it, there was a time when SA percentages were something you had to call the MFG and get from engineering.

"What's more safe? More SA or Less?" In some situations, even the 30% SA is unacceptable. You are saying one thing and I'm saying there is more to it than picking the lowest SA if you are looking for glass break coverage from your MFG... they have to approve and it must meet their criteria. You can look at it your way but glass conditions prevail over SA. Heck if the glass was clear tempered, then the SA would hardly matter at all.

A long time ago I used to do the same thing though but one day I put a piece of 70% on a window and it broke. Yeah, the odds were better than putting 30% on but when it was all said and done, the glass still cracked...

Okay, so we understand eachother we just have failure to communicate.

Like I said, I'm not preaching SA, SA, SA. I was just saying SA determines if it's safe according to the film-to-glass chart.

I wasn't saying any specific SA is required for it to be safe. I was just saying giving the option of two, the lower is safer.

January 22, 2007

Okay, so we understand eachother we just have failure to communicate.
Like I said, I'm not preaching SA, SA, SA. I was just saying SA determines if it's safe according to the film-to-glass chart.

I wasn't saying any specific SA is required for it to be safe. I was just saying giving the option of two, the lower is safer.

:thumb True dat! :poop

January 23, 2007

True dat!

:lol :dunno damn the faliure :lol :lol2

Protint · January 24, 2007

Optitune 5 (38% solar energy absorbed)

Silver 20 (34% S.E.A.)

I was useing Optitune15 on a job early one morning and as the sun came up I heard a transom above the front door crack after the film was installed. I used Optitune30 in the morning room of my house and have one cracked window after the install. I am going to see if the builder will replace it on my one year.