Tintguy1980

3 minutes ago, Fish1 said:

We are going to run the study like the picture (Condition 1), and then again without the one-way glass (Condition 2). This is to see if the group being able to see and interact with the subject changes things. (This is part of a bigger study where we want to use videos of groups instead of live groups – we found that the fish (guppies) prefer live groups over videos, but aren’t sure whether this is because of the interaction or because the video looks odd to these fish – their vision is different to ours).

 

 

 

The reason for worries about UV blocking and so on is that maybe we get a difference between the two conditions not because the fish are able to interact or not, but because the one-way film blocks something visual that is relevant to how they choose groups – e.g. blocks UV, blocks certain colours, or makes the group look dimmer. Guppies use colour and UV in choosing mates - they'd be able to see human-visible light through the film (so it wouldn't look like a solid block), but maybe not see the UV colours on the fish in the group. So we are thinking of putting a film on the glass for Condition 2 that has the same visual properties as the one-way film in Condition 2, except allows two-way vision. But we haven’t been able to find something that would do this - and aren't sure what to look for.

 

 

 

Maybe a clear film would work, it too absorbs UV at the same level as dye, metallized, or ceramic colored film.

Yours is the answer.

I would suggest a means of placing a light block on top of the mirror area and at each end. This would keep room lighting from hitting the dark side of your glass. This will improve the subjects view to the group(s).

You already know the higher lighting needs to be on the mirror side.

Lastly, the tanks inside glass surface may increase in reflectivity once you blacken out above and ends on the central apparatus. This may require you to provide no lighting to the subject tank.

17 hours ago, Fish1 said:

 

 

We want to use a one-way coating/film on a piece of glass or PVC so that the subject fish can see the groups, but the group can’t see the subject fish. (So, the group of fish is like the suspect in an interrogation room – we’ll make their tanks brighter so the one-way works). This is to stop the group seeing and interacting with the subject fish. Then, we’ll compare that to without the one-way film to see if being able to interact with each other makes a difference.

Is it just one fish tank, three groups total and you want to wall off 2 groups from one in the same tank?

We are going to place the glass at 45 degrees so the group doesn’t see their own reflections.

If the filmed glass is in the tank they will see themselves as they approach the lower end of slope.

I’ve spoken to a few firms for advice but they haven’t been able to help, and have said the visual qualities of the films is proprietary – though some publish VLT etc.

I don't believe visual qualities are proprietary; sounds fishy. Yes, I had to go there.

It would be nice to know the exact visual qualities of the film – e.g. if the films block UV and how much, because the fish we use can see UV. We’d like something as visually pure as possible.

Practically all films have visual qualities similar to glass itself save opaque or translucent film products.

What would be the best solution for this? More specifically:

Would a mirror film provide the one-way vision, but provide more visibility than a black film? Would VLT be the measure that lets us know the visibility?

There are film products that mimic the interrogation room glass; they are known as 'dual-reflective or DR'. They are shinier on one side in comparison to the opposite side. What would be most suitable for your needs is a dual-reflective that has a VLT of 30%, 15% or 5%. Mirror side of film, of course, faces the subjects.

Whatever we use, there will be some blocking/dimming of light it seems? What kind of film would minimize this?

As long as the light on the subject side is far brighter than the group side, the group will see the subjects but not vice versa. Outside sources of room light may impact the results in a negative way.

Is there a company that has a one-way film and a two-way film that are similar in other ways that we could use to match visibility? My worry is that the one-way film will make the groups look darker, so was thinking of using another film to match this darkening in our other tests.
You may have to experiment with the different VLT films previously suggested.

 

To add another complication, we’re in Canada. AND? There are film suppliers all across Canada.

 

Sorry for all the questions No worries, this is one of the most interesting approaches for film use in my entire career I left 8 years ago. It's up there with: Can I film my bath tub to change it's color. – as you can tell, am new to the window film world.

 

Thank you!

 

 

I have attached a picture of what my mind conjured up as to placement of fish and glass.

And to you and yours.

LLumar DR series, if still available, is practically a dead ringer in look and performance to Night Vision for less.

Global DR Ceramic is another that leans to the smoke look rather than LLumar and 3M's Night vision. 35% VLT would suffice.

You may already know the following.

If the grooves are from long time use go with the above recommendations, otherwise, you might consider re-calibrating blade pressure, check for damaged blade point, clean the blade tip with a sweep or two using a tooth brush, and or replace blade if damage to tip is noted.

When repositioning the strip (flipping or replacing), ensure there are no high / low spots. Those strips should last a long time without carving occurring when pressure is dialed in with a precision balancing act between cutting usable material only and not cutting cleanly.

I have a living room with windows on the east and south and knowing what I know about the effectiveness of even the darkest film, which comes with hazards of thermo stress on the dual pane glass ... I set the TV in the corner between the two windows. Viewing the TV and the windows in the same field of vision. There will always be a reflection of the windows on the TV, just muted. Curtains are the best solution for this issue.

 

Sure looks like auto glass technology is advancing. I remember the coating on Lexus and some Toyota models could be removed with a glass polish. It took some effort to get to the glass itself and that was an anti-fog coating technology.

This IR/UV coating is looking like it is more robust. I wouldn't want to be the one experimenting with whatever product to attempt removal of it. The UV rating is 99%+ reduction, but they limit what they  say about IR performance to: Mitigates sense of intense heat on the skin ... Controls rising cabin temperatures.

The link is to a company that apparently is deep into providing glass with this coating and they certainly limit info. Take a look for yourself. This appears to be something that could/would expand to more brands/models. It sure is going to put a new slant on selling film and installing film to cars.

https://www.cgc-jp.com/products/search_category/automotiveglass/ircut.html

I agree with TD.

I'll answer with a question; as long as you've been in business before moving to a new city, how many times did you receive a cold call via email?

This was always my plan: go to dealer > request a brief meeting with decision maker (sales/service mgr) > intro > present reason for being there > close on services, if there is interest.

Win some, lose some and in most cases, there isn't any easy way other than plain old shoe leather, a smile and a handshake.

It appears film suppliers are tightening up on warranty claims.

If I was still installing, all they ask for would stick in my crawl for awhile and when it comes to vin # I'd take a picture of it and attach to the submission. F**k writing/typing the whole thing down.

Then again, the consumer should be the one to register while the installing firm need only supply VLT & lot/roll number to the client via their receipt.

Change is the only constant in our lives. Ugh!

Don't know about the best, but I do know about these folks; Ener-Gard Energy Products.

They'll sell you film with a stiff upper lip.

Diversify.

I worked with anyone that touched windows for whatever reason; whether replacement, new install (construction), a broken pane replacement, or window cleaners. This was done ONLY on a referral basis with no $$ exchanging hands either direction; just pure refer to you and you refer to me.

As TD has shared, there are relationship traps when getting too cozy.

Reminds me of Tintwizards method of blasting the entire film.

Don't see any concerns other than just don't drop the thing and possible mobility issues in old age from repetitive movement with the weight of the heater(s) used.

Seems, as though heat is being dispersed over a wide area, moving along, and at a distance off the surface in a similar fashion to control excessive heat exposure; same as what a heat gun does over a smaller area.

My guess would be temp doesn't exceed that of using a torch, which was always given the stink eye from tech support, because it was 'suspected' of causing chemical changes in adhesive and coloring. Haven't heard any long term reporting to back the suspicions.

Do eat your spinach before jumping on board with this. Then watch your arm build massive muscles. You'll be going around with one popeye arm and well, a wimpy arm in comparison. 😆 💪

By the way, I remember seeing the Global shrink of a VW back glass way back about the time stated.

Simple.

Call them, explain what happened and that you'll make arrangements for remedial action.

What Bham left out was the fact that a seasoned installer would, 1) not leave creases and 2) use a heat resistant hard card as a heat-block to protect weatherstrip material.

Heat is used to speed up drying in areas where it might be needed.

Wow, I can't believe they left those creases.

Inquire SolarGard Films (unable to remember maker) or LLumar Films (maker Eastman Chemical).

There are *some* that dislike 3M for whatever reason, that said, 3M is a powerhouse in the window film industry. I have their Crystalline/Prestige 40 on my Jeep windows and I can affirm the performance and longevity of the product. 7years in full sun parking and no sign of degradation of adhesive clarity, color or performance. If I were in your situation of looking at a 70% VLT film, Prestige would be my choice (Edit: and I am not beholden to any one product).

I have attached a snapshot of Therm-x 70 published performance values for your review and a link to the source. Also, know that the marketing wording on the product includes the phrase 'proprietary blend of metals' as read on a couple Google listings. This may or may not be a problem for electronic use indoors, since any metallic coating is rather light, but why chance it.

https://www.huperoptikusa.com/downloads/

Hmm, it may not be rocket science but it sure falls under physics and meteorology.

Humidity does slow dry time; almost everyone knows this. Now, putting the car in full sun is like putting it in the dryer.

Oh and ah, just a small tidbit of info about pressure sensitive adhesives used mostly on automotive film; the adhesive is already cured during the manufacturing process. Most say 'cured' or 'cure time', when in fact, it is known as dry or drying time.

3 hours ago, Bham said:

   I'm pretty sure @Dano would embarrass an uneducated film rep if they came in his shop. 

Relatable.

2 hours ago, Dano said:

I had a rep touring my area with one of his corporate big wigs during the rather public mergers in '15 talking smack about one product vs theirs. My quote was "Don't make me shame you", and was then offered a position from corporate on the spot. Mr sales rep stood there like a deer in the headlights after being exposed as a stooge thinking he was about to get replaced for not knowing his product line...

 

"How do you know that?"  Me: "This is my industry, it's my job to know that" 

Relatable.

2 hours ago, Dano said:

Bro....It's happend more than once!

Relatable.

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In my case I am incognito by request of my last employer.

Ain't touching anything else here.

On 7/19/2023 at 8:21 PM, mobiledynamics said:

I totally forgot when I posted this but that has what I have been telling myself as well - just wait as I will need to get it replaced it at some point.....It's not driven that much though, so it take longer for the inevitable rock to catch up to me

Yeah, try driving behind more big trucks. Or, park under a black walnut tree hoping one strikes just the right place.

There's also the absorbent rope or twisted towels at the bottom trick to catch moisture, while using the sweating method where there's good chance the film will peel off with adhesive. It IS summertime, right?

Edit: don't use a black bag to do the sweat method lest you really do want to crack it. Opaque or white will do.

22 hours ago, mrsunshades said:

Somtimes what it takes is figuring out a new way to do things - I was told by a doctor, for my knees & back, to stop kneeling on the back seat to do the rear glass. Well how am I supposed to do that?!? So what I do is go sideways - most rear seats fold down so you can put larger items in the trunk. So I sit down on that seat back and swing my legs into the trunk and I'm sitting down with the glass in front of me, instead of kneeling and having to crane my neck up. 

To do the install I sit down, backwards, on the seat (coming in from the passenger side) with the film draped "superman" style in my outstreached arms, and then just lean back and swing my arms into the car. 

Will post a video of this technique soon.

I was too long in the torso to do the seat fold down approach. Remember those old corvettes with bowed glass and vertical defrost that wouldn't pop open? Now that's where you break out a plank, fold down the upright of the passenger seat and crawl in to work on your back.

I did a similar style by backing into the back seat, cheek walk to a central position, and turn my orangutan arms/twist torso toward the back glass. Well, up until L5 spoke harshly to me. Then it was a forward dip in, maneuvering legs to have feet on floor board and resting knees at the edge of the back seat.

Back seats have always been about getting it done; depending on the 'it', if you get my drift. The taller one is the tougher.

I'll bite.

My back was jacked before I even started tinting; slipped L5 vertebrae with mild spina-bifida, mild scoliosis at lower thoracic, anterior thoracic, mild spina-bifida at T1, reverse cervical curve, and bone spurs at C6/C7 have grown together.

Tinted for 35+ years. So, ask me how my back is doing. The upside is I don't have to tint anymore, but I do my own cars and house (slowly and carefully), I can still walk, and I only run for my life. Unable to lift more than 25 pounds. I cannot climb ladders but will do it to save a life. My low back gives me grief daily, my neck is f**cked and bursitis has limited the use of my shoulders.

I exercise to keep necessary movement and will do so until they throw dirt on my face.

Now, tell me ... what did you say about your back?

https://expresswindowfilms.com/