Supreme

Bound to happen, have always said I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a factory option or as technology becomes better some other sort of hardened layer is sprayed on during the manufacturer process. As long as its better then the film they use from factory for the rear impact areas already. The question is who is doing the installs and is it really done at the manufacturer or sub'd out. I thought XPEL was authorized OEM for Porsche?

If auto manufacturers start offering it in house then it is going to affect all installers. Means installers have been screwed by the PPF manufacturers by them selling the product direct effectively cutting out installers. The PPF manufacturers will all scramble to try sell it to the different car manufacturers as that's where the money will end up being instead of aftermarket.

Lets hope it doesn't go that way...

Don't think it was a new rule, happened here a couple of years ago but I know it wasn't everywhere which as annoying. One set of rules for one country and not another so maybe they have just decided to do it everywhere now. Some people may call it smart as it locks people into also buying their films. Whether this has translated into more money as opposed to the loss of DAP only sales who knows. The problem with doing it this way is you are resting everything on the fact you have the best software and so people will pay to use you and your film. As we know with technology that never lasts. What do you do then, go backwards?

Sunteks Patterns are really good these days and if you see the 3D scanning tool/camera/machine they use you can understand why. So another case of technology allowing other peoples templates to get better. Others are working hard on their templates to, I know Avery will be releasing a database for their SPF XI films at the end of the year also. Although no matter which software you use you can be certain that the manufacturer wants you to use their film to, sure they may not lock it down on you but you can bet they will push you to use their film. Win win if it is a film you use anyway.

What id personally benefit from is a company with different pricing models. I bulk everything now but kits still come in handy for all the inserts on bumpers, door cups, boot ledges etc. To pay a high monthly fee to just cut those every now and then sucks but is also another reason Suntek works for me, great for bulk installers as you don't feel you are paying too much for little use. Although id still like them to have a low volume cut price.

Their vinyl wasn't the greatest so id imagine it would be a pig to install as well. I can get most edges with PPF like vinyl except the obvious pointy ones like the back of a hood, a slight line having to trim them is nothing.

Avery have me test their unreleased Gen 2 SPF PPF film and it was actually quite nice to work with. They are testing it side by side with a number of films and also do age testing and other tests like they do with their Vinyl. Like Jeff said they will all look the same when applied but there are companies that put a lot of time and money into R&D and then there are those that will only care how it looks when first applied.

Having said that I do believe there is a market for 'lower quality' films that don't need to last as long. Plenty of 4WD's out there that want a layer that is going to get smashed pretty quick, caravan coverage. Even covering things like bench's, toolchests etc. These people don't need the best, the film will get trashed quickly so forking out big bucks for that is a bit crazy and is a whole section of a market missed.

The flip side to that is now there are so many films out there, some fairly cheap that more places are just picking up PPF as a service with pretty poor quality installs. Learning from YouTube just like what has happened in the vinyl wrap world. All business get affected by that sort of flooding of the industry no matter how much they stick by their quality.

I switched from Xpel to Suntek and i like it. I did go from XPEL Ultimate to Suntek Ultra though so maybe a bit of apples and oranges as i never tried the Ultimate +. As mentioned above there is a lot that comes into play with choosing who to go with. Software pricing and CS are big. I know XPEL in the US are great and loved dealing with the guys there. Was a different story over hear though, i wont go into it too much but it was more about selling film so setting up installers as direct competition in the area wasnt a concern instead of growing current installers business. In the US i believe you dont have that issue as country distributors are more concerned with the bottom dollar since they have an investment riding on it.

As far as the software goes, Truecut has come leaps and bounds. I am very impressed with the newer patterns and its getting easier to use. Not as easy as i found DAP but for the price i dont mind taking some extra time to tinker and i expect it to get easier over time. Suntek have also teamed up with creaform3d to implement new 3D scanning technology. the machine used looks pretty wicked and if they say it will be even more accurate then thats exciting. Bottom line is they are constantly trying to improve all aspects so i have no issues sticking with Truecut. 

Always test a coating on a small section thats easy to replace first.

I use a Gyeon 6monthly coating (think its called cancoat). I only use it on my cars and when customers want a coating i usually send them to the detailing pro's that use a Willams coating. I did have a customer that took it to another place that their coating f@#ked the wrap. Why the coating place didnt test it on a section first is beyond me. 

With coatings on wraps it comes down to technique more then anything. If you dont know how to professionally install a coating then i wouldnt bother. If its not applied properly it will streak and then once it hardens its too late.

As others mention the initial cost and then the cost to hone your skills is pretty crazy. One of the big reasons not anyone can just start doing it. You need that commitment. I must admit in the early days i almost packed it in with the amount of times i would take off a panel and redo it because i was not happy with the quality. not a good feeling scrunching up any profits and throwing them in the bin.

I slashed my overheads by changing film providers (for other reasons) and can make good money per job. All those things will come into play as you get into it.

Good Luck! 

May depend where he is located. I know some of the distributors here for brands new to the market (new here anyway) only offer 60" rolls e.g Stek & Avery.  They are obviously distributors that arent too aware of the needs of the installer or are just offering a limited range until they can gauge its popularity.

17 hours ago, Bham said:

Hey @PremiumShield Brett  and @Supreme   ??  Are y'all two related?   

cmon man, dont make it so tempting to make a comment about being a father or banging a relative 

Sorry but it came across as sour grapes with comments that weren't needed, nothing to do with me being sensitive. Maybe reread your first too unnecessary lines instead of blaming others for why you don't post.

So bottom line is guys, Suntek announced 72" rolls are on their way. Others apparently haven't them to but 3 months is too early to start marketing. Enjoy them from whoever you get them from but apparently they will have issue.

Enjoy your installs, I'm off to get a coffee.

Shots fired against Suntek hey, not sure why. Well they did market it at SEMA and they also did installs of it I believe, which one could assume wouldn't be done if there was quality issues.

No one ever said it was exclusive, just that they are first to announce its release as it is a much anticipated size for some. If Premiumshield has quality issues with their 72" rolls then that's their issue, and if you are not expecting much from it then why would you release it, don't release it at all until you are certain the quality is high. I wouldn't be comparing the sub par quality of Ventureshield to the better quality and more forgiving films of today.

Seems like Suntek are 1st to the ball and have launched their new 72" rolls, although not available until January though.

Should help with those wide bonnets!

2 hours ago, highplains said:

 

If you look just to the right of his finger where the film is pulled up you can see the orange peel is in the paint not the film. 

Looks completely different to where the film is to me  If my car came with that much orange peel in the paint id be taking it back!

That's some orange peel! I haven't seen 3M pro but damn!

I went the other way, from XPEL Ultimate to Suntek Ultra and man I love the finish of it and how it was to work with. No issues with edges for me. I have heard XPEL was bringing out a plus so id say it will be on par with Suntek Ultra but I can only imagine the price of it over here if its more expensive then the standard offering. I'm saving about $800 a roll using Suntek Ultra, can pass that onto my customers which should inturn bring in more business. Havent had a chance to play with the new Trucut but from speaking to the rep a fair bit has changed and has become more user friendly so that will be a plus, otherwise I will just keep bulking...

They both have their pro's and con's. I don't think kits are necessarily quicker, for install sure, but what about the time it takes to find the kit, ensure its right, cut, weed etc. That is added time. I switched from DAP to TruCut and it was a lot more time consuming to extend edges and make other mods, with more time I'm sure I could get a little quicker but still not as simple.

I was more forced to switch from kits to bulk. Film companies don't have different levels of access for their programs to cater for different businesses. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to install PPF every day to cover the crazy fees. So you have to do what fits in with your business.

You don't need to remove a lot off a car to get a better fit with bulk. You can tuck under a headlight instead of trimming in front, you can tuck into the grille rather then having a line going around it. The cons of bulking is material wastage and cutting on a customers car.

Well said guys!

This all comes down to the education of the customer before the install. These sorts of potential issues need to be made clear before the job is started and let the customer make their mind up then rather then send yourself broke looking for a 'flawless' finish. 

The technology and products are awesome but there are limits. Unless you don't drive your car then as soon as you drive down the road you get spots that will look exactly the same from bugs, dirt, tar etc. A car looks great freshly washed but stays that way for a minute.

Yeh your first post mentions the client wont let you remove headlights, door handles etc off the car. Hope he doesn't swing by lol

4 hours ago, BigRuski said:

@pro-tect mobile the finish of vinyl doesnt look anywhere near as good as ppf though. I can tell its a wrap if the car is driving 5 lanes away from me.

Ermm...no comment.

Just cant imagine doing a complete paint replacement wrap in PPF and it not looking funny due to being able to see the original colour in between panels or even some edges. Using multiple pieces to create joins due to the limits of conformability in areas such as the small bumper inserts but I guess with no time limit anything is possible. Look forward to seeing it done.

Heard XPEL had this a couple of years ago now. Havent seen it used over here yet which isn't surprising since it was priced higher than the Stealth.

I personally asked XPEL. This is due to the fact i am thinking of adding another film to my services rather than get into a pricing battle (and a few other reasons i dont need to talk about here). The response was that DAP is setup only for XPEL film usage with cutbank. No response back after asking for further advice but i am not exactly an in the pocket or a high turn over XPEL user (the valued ones).

I guess there are people on here that don't use XPEL film but use DAP, these people are not 'in the pocket' so they feel they cant exactly just ring or email XPEL about it, hence the point of an industry forum where they can ask others in the industry or I guess hope for a response from the company knowing they are active on here.

Without this post I wouldn't have asked the question to XPEL as Id assumed it could just be used and possibly got myself blocked or something if I decided to go down that track. Then again I would of expected some formal notification if it had changed. But I thank the originator of the post

I don't think anyone should get on Dynamics case for trying, the challenge was thrown out there and like he said no one is really going to fly there to accept it so nothing wrong with him attempting it over pics.

I don't think (would hope) there is one installer that wouldn't aim for those standards. You do have to draw the line somewhere if that perfection means unnecessary material and time wastage for not much gain. Sure learn from it for the next install. There are shops that don't get high discounts on material to waste, have high overheads, single or low staff numbers, better eyes, lighting etc. Knowing when to cut your acceptable losses is just as an important part to a successful business, as long as the customer is happy....

lol My bad, I guess im used to it as have had a few run ins over differing opinions and no doubt some will be waiting to pounce! Im starting 2016 off on the good foot and not getting involved with any of that, that's why I just like to 'lurk and learn' in the PPF section now rather than comment.

Apologies and wont say no to a free drink although was too merry over the holiday season and need to detox

If you want to chime in Ocala, by all means.

I fully expect those that Ive had disagreements with to jump in and make it personal. At the end of the day I could of remained anonymous and not put my hand up. I didn't make it known because I need the money and want to make sure the customer goes with me, as I said it looks like DAP doesn't have kits anyway.

Don't need to Tango (unless you want to pay  ) and no doubts on your skill. Just need to concentrate on my area and make sure my customers are happy with installs as that's all that matters to me.

It is a perfect example of why we need to be cautious and have said this before. Advice can differ from person to person, forum to forum and it doesn't take much for businesses to get ruined from advice people take as gospel or out of context. We give advice with a lot of unknowns to a situation or context behind it that people could then take away and bad mouth businesses on other forums, word of mouth etc

I would definitely like to chime into this before the Installer bashing goes to far, seeing as though I am the installer in question!

When customers contact installers with absolutely no idea on a product It is their job to educate as much as possible. This is usually appreciated as it is a big unknown area and a lot of trades do not put enough effort into, they are in it just to get your money (as you so put it).

This is a perfect example of words being taken out of context by the customer focusing on the word 'major' and not understanding on what an installer of a particular product considers to be major. This was elaborated on but clearly not enough. I 100% standby that not every install can be completely flawless/perfect. Im sure if trained installers looked those that claim there's are they will find minute flaws in some of their installs. Sure these are flaws that 99% of customers will never notice and are hard to see but if you happen to get that customer that does go looking and notice it, then its better to set expectations before. Cars come in that are 'brand new' in the customers eyes that can have defects, rock chips they never noticed that may result in a slight air bubble, the odd spec of dust etc.  Yes also slightly cautious over potential Opticoat issues recesses, stretched areas etc but due to many forums claiming they have not had an issue we were more than happy to set this out from the start and continue if wanted. Straight from Xpels FAQ page

"Can/should Opticoat or cQuartz be applied to the car before the film is installed?"

We do NOT recommend applying sealants such as Opticoat or cQuartz to the parts of the car that will be covered with film. The low surface energy of paint sealant products such as these will cause adhesion problems both during installation and over the life of the product. In addition, it is worth noting that there is really no benefit to applying sealant to the paint before the film anyway, since the film will provide far more environmental protection to the paint than a sealant ever could.

As mentioned, its about ensuring there is nothing visually displeasing, of course fingerprints, silvering etc are unacceptable. Every installer knows that you don't last long in this (and many other) business doing bad installs and I certain wouldn't offer a service that I lose money on from not being able to install properly.  We have never had an issue with an unhappy customer and they appreciate us being upfront about PPF not being completely invisible. This is impressed on you during the XPEL certification to not sell the PPF as a completely invisible and indestructible product. They in fact mentioned they shoot for 95% perfect installs, does this mean they 5% is a dirty big line or air bubbles everywhere. No, it means they are realistic that not every install can be 100% and you could waste a lot of money chasing that 100% unnecessarily.

I advised the customer that they definitely need to check out an install and happy for them to come by this Friday to check out a full frontal we are doing, as seeing the product that they have never seen and discussing in person is invaluable to emails. Unfortunately that time didn't work out which was fine but still would have thought a lot better then taking to a forum.

I would also like to add that I had already checked DAP and there were no kits for an Audi S1, was 99% sure this meant we were not going to do it but was always happy to confirm. I took time to provide advice knowing this rather then saying, sorry, no kit available, see you later. Was only too happy to try assist knowing it will help our towns only other installer (who we have good rapport with that uses Hexis Bodyfence). Was also asked if I wrap edges, took the time to educate about what is wrap able and what isnt

Apologies if the word 'major' was taken out of context, would have been happy to clarify more or as mentioned show you if you were concerned but yes I did as DynamicApearance mentioned sense pickiness, more through a lack of exposure to the product and from you reading forums but I was only too happy to assist with all that as there is nothing wrong with pickiness.

Removal and coatings over films were not even discussed, so I don't need contacting/educating over that thanks Jeff.

Day 1 back off holiday, hopefully this doesn't set the tone for the rest of the year.

Good luck with your install.

What company should I use for insurance...most companies I have called dont insure tinters

You need to find companies that do 'motor trade insurance' as a lot don't.

I started with NRMA and am currently in the search for another as I am paying $230ish a month. The last quote I got (a couple of days old) was for $160 a month through Tradesure (they use Allianz).

After reading this I might give GIO a try, although id say mine is higher as I have insurance for the workshop and also off site.