Give Em what they want

[vquestfilms.com]

DL15 Grey is just a dyed film.. How would it be shiny?

It is not that shiny, definitely contains dye.

DL 15 has high interior reflectivity and a minimal exterior reflectivity. I think it's used primarily as an interior interior film.

Yes, it is an interior film.

[Guest Speed_Of_Flight]

As long as the customer is informed about all the potential problems, then I'd say you're not wrong.

Amen!

I spent 8K having my whole house tinted (54 windows)with Huper Optik C30 and was not told that it would void all my window warranties. 6 months later....18 IGU seals blew on the South, East and Western exposures due to the surface 4 tint reflecting back UV and IR off the triple silver sputter coated surface 2-causing the internal temps to rise to 140F+. The Huper Optik rep was out from Houston(the dealer was getting approved for HO)and I asked him directly if it would blow my seals... He said no.

And these were Cardinal Low E366 IGU's with XLEdge spacers. Top of the line IGU's....

All tint hast been removed(except Northern) and replaced 36 IGUS at a cost of 10K.

No offense....If I want tint on my windows I'll go with a Cardinal LowE 240.

IMO, it is not debatable that window tinting voids manufacturers warranties and causes premature seal failure.

Homeowners should be made aware of this and asses the risk/reward cause people do not call Anderson/Pella/Marvin beforehand and ask.

Single pane/Plate/Auto...Fantastic. Dual pane/Triple pane...disasterous.

[EWF]

DL 15 has high interior reflectivity and a minimal exterior reflectivity.

Forgive me if I am having a "Medicare Moment" and looking at the entirely wrong film:

Llumar DL15

VLRi = 9

VLRe = 10

Neither side is particularly shiny and there is virtually no difference from one side to the other.

Reference: http://www.llumar.com/pdf/en/LLumarArchSolarSpecs.pdf

-Howard

[EWF]

DL15 Grey is just a dyed film.. How would it be shiny?

It is not that shiny, definitely contains dye.

DL 15 has high interior reflectivity and a minimal exterior reflectivity. I think it's used primarily as an interior interior film.

Yes, it is an interior film.

I have to dissent with my esteemed colleagues here.

From Llumar's Website:

Deluxe films are specified for commercial buildings where high levels of heat rejection and glare reduction are needed. Deluxe films are ideal for privacy applications and exterior aesthetics. They are scratch-resistant, reduce 99% of ultraviolet rays, and come in gray, green and bronze.

Nothing there to preclude interior use or to suggest it would not be compatible. But it is listed in their datasheets as a traditional Solar Control Product.

-Howard

[EWF]

Single pane/Plate/Auto...Fantastic. Dual pane/Triple pane...disasterous.

Hi SOF,

That is just terrible. I am so sorry to hear of this.

I did want to point out that window film is perfectly compatible with dual pane provided the guidelines are understood and followed. My company sells millions of square feet of flat glass film each year and the overwhelming majority of it is applied to DP. While breakage is not unheard of, claim payouts represent less than 0.01% of annual sales for us for the last 25+ years that we have been selling flat glass films.

Triple pane is a no-go. Always.

BTW: Are you a pilot? Just curious based upon your "handle".

-Howard

[EWF]

IMO, it is not debatable that window tinting voids manufacturers warranties and causes premature seal failure.

Hi SOF,

It's not just your opinion - it's a fact. The application of film voids the warranty.

The warranties provided by our industry are intended to replace that coverage.

-Howard

[vquestfilms.com]

As long as the customer is informed about all the potential problems, then I'd say you're not wrong.

Amen!

I spent 8K having my whole house tinted (54 windows)with Huper Optik C30 and was not told that it would void all my window warranties. 6 months later....18 IGU seals blew on the South, East and Western exposures due to the surface 4 tint reflecting back UV and IR off the triple silver sputter coated surface 2-causing the internal temps to rise to 140F+. The Huper Optik rep was out from Houston(the dealer was getting approved for HO)and I asked him directly if it would blow my seals... He said no.

And these were Cardinal Low E366 IGU's with XLEdge spacers. Top of the line IGU's....

All tint hast been removed(except Northern) and replaced 36 IGUS at a cost of 10K.

No offense....If I want tint on my windows I'll go with a Cardinal LowE 240.

IMO, it is not debatable that window tinting voids manufacturers warranties and causes premature seal failure.

Homeowners should be made aware of this and asses the risk/reward cause people do not call Anderson/Pella/Marvin beforehand and ask.

Single pane/Plate/Auto...Fantastic. Dual pane/Triple pane...disasterous.

I am sorry to hear about your experience. Occasionally seal failure does occur however, it is not brand specific and not always due to the installation of aftermarket window film. True, in the majority of instances aftermarket window film installed on a window will void the manufacture warranty just like with most other products. Once you alter a product why should the MFG stand behind their warranty? These are givens and should be explained to the customer beforehand so they can make an informed decision. Many window film manufactures will offer warranties that assume the terms and conditions of the OEM warranty, including seal failure.

I would like to consider some facts in regard to seal failure:

Fact- Untinted glass IGU units fail, period. It is not "if" it is "when will and IGU fail." This is not brand specific it is industry wide. In fact, try and get a hold of glass industry statistics on seal failure. You will have greater easy getting a hold of classified government documents. So in light of the fact that all glass seals will fail at some point can we blame all seal failure entirely on window film? No.

Fact- Triple pane interior installation of window film is not recommended. If someone say it is, get it in writing from the window film MFG. In 21 years I have never seen a triple pane interior film recommendation.

Fact- The majority of dual pane window film installations do not experience premature seal failure. If they did, then the flat glass window film market would not be able to sustain itself (claims would put it out of business). While there are some cases (like this one) of seal failure, you have to look at the millions of square feet of window film that is installed each year on dual pane IGU's. If there was a 30%+ failure rate then I would venture to guess that most companies would go out of business.

I have a few questions:

-Why did you tint the "north windows?"

-Do you know what the solar absorbance and air space heat gain of Cardinal Low E 240 windows are? I think you will find that to be about as high as your filmed glass...

-This one really puzzles me... Why did you apply film to a surface #4 coated window?

-Why make the claim "If I want tint on my windows I'll go with a Cardinal LowE 240."? The 240 has the same SHGC as the 366 so you would get no improvement in Total Solar Energy Rejection. This doesn't make sense...

I'm not knocking your experience here, I am sure the whole thing was incredibly frustrating and inconvenient to say the least. I just question some of your conclusions. Hopefully, you things were made right for you. Who was the rep that came out to inspect your warranty claim?

[vquestfilms.com]

DL15 Grey is just a dyed film.. How would it be shiny?

It is not that shiny, definitely contains dye.

DL 15 has high interior reflectivity and a minimal exterior reflectivity. I think it's used primarily as an interior interior film.

Yes, it is an interior film.

I have to dissent with my esteemed colleagues here.

From Llumar's Website:

Deluxe films are specified for commercial buildings where high levels of heat rejection and glare reduction are needed. Deluxe films are ideal for privacy applications and exterior aesthetics. They are scratch-resistant, reduce 99% of ultraviolet rays, and come in gray, green and bronze.

Nothing there to preclude interior use or to suggest it would not be compatible. But it is listed in their datasheets as a traditional Solar Control Product.

-Howard

Howard I can see why you might come to this conclusion. I would recommend checking Llumar's warranty and see if DL 15 Grey is included in the exterior coverage. If it is not, then you have to assume that it is an interior film only because it is listed as one of the covered films on the interior warranty terms.

[vquestfilms.com]

You would think a huper dealer would know better to install on those types of IGU..did huper help with the cost of replacing the windows.?

You would think? Evidently he did not know better or maybe he did not have the proper tools to do a thorough glass inspection? If he was one of our he would have been trained otherwise. To help with proper film to glass recommendations we offer online glass inspection courses to all of our dealers.

[EWF]

Hi Vquest,

I think we agree, but have our signals crossed.

When you say exterior - do you mean the #1 surface? I was not suggesting that. You are right, it would not be approved for that.

I meant that the film was primary intended for application to the #2 surface of an exterior single pane window and was indicated for glare and heat control.

As far as "interior usage" as eluded to in this thread: I thought you were saying that it was intended for glass partitions between offices which were not exposed to the sun (i.e. on the interior of a building). I meant to say that the film was not intended primarly for those types of apps.

Make sense?

-Howard