Newbie Showing Some Of My Work

Tint Eastwood · September 21, 2011

But if every car company from GM to Toyota is circumventing the law, why should the small number of people working in our industry be held to a different standard? If the wealthy limousine/livery crowd can ride around without a care in the world over a tint ticket, why should installers be held to a different standard? It's not fair. We don't have one set of laws for GM, Toyota, the Limousine Crowd and another for our industry.

The Pennsylvania Vehicle Code does not apply to vehicles with windows tinted by the manufacturer. Federal law regulates manufacturers.

Now, if the police were ticketing brand new SUVs and limos and liveries and school busses, etc, I would agree. But they do not. So if you live and work in NY and you have tint on your car, you are not doing anything that GM and Toyota are not doing every single day.

Yes, you are applying an aftermarket product to a vehicle which is clearly unlawful according to state law and not covered under any form of federal regulation (other than maybe "equal protection clauses" on a federal level as you stated. Which I find to be a long shot for a small time shop/tinter that does not have corp. lawyers on their payroll.)

Howard, I have to ask, would YOU personally build a business that is solely based around installing a product in a state, such as Penn., that prohibits said product for end users (whether it be through "draconian, or so poorly written (or both)" laws)? Of which one could possibly be held liable for any incidents or legal processes that could result from the installation/mis-use of said product? You, as a manu., cannot be held liable for selling 5% to ANYBODY nationwide but we as the installers more than likely can (and in some cases will) be held liable.

"Installation of non-conforming window tint is a violation of the Vehicle Code and the Attorney General considers it a violation of the Unfair Trade Practices and Consumer Protection Law. The Consumer Protection Law permits a court to award a consumer reimbursement for the cost of applying the tint and fine the installer up to $1,000 for each willful violation. State and local police enforce the law. The Office of Attorney General Bureau of Consumer Protection can help consumers who believe they have been defrauded by businesses selling them illegal products."

Taken from Pennsylvania Attorney General's website.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/consumers.aspx?id=295

According to this Hummel could face $10k+ in fines alone on the work he has displayed, not to mention refunding what he charged to install. Doesn't seem worth the risk to me.

I would still say find a new career if you don't feel you can make a living within your state laws.

EWF · September 21, 2011

Hi TintTintTint,

You're right - PA is very harsh on this. He could face a serious fine. One of our best customers was made an example of a few years ago.

No, I would not launch a business under those circumstances. Please consider NY however, where the industry was thriving until Mario Cuomo came along in 1993 and made it illegal. There were 400-500 tint shops that woke up one day and were suddenly legislated out of business.

I have obtained several legal opinions (one from a sitting judge) that agree that the vehicles I referred to in my post (limos, SUVs, etc.) are not tinted legally according to NY Law as it is written. There is no enforcement against them, while window film installers are punished.

In an even more painful twist, New York law now allows dark tinting on out-of-state vehicles driven in NY as long as the tinting complies with the state law where that vehicle is registered. In other words, they are giving preferential treatment to non-NY residents. I would love to meet the legislator that wrote that clause.

NY would be well served to just replicate the CT law (35%).

TTT: What are your feelings about NY then?

-Howard

Tint Eastwood · September 21, 2011

I have obtained several legal opinions (one from a sitting judge) that agree that the vehicles I referred to in my post (limos, SUVs, etc.) are not tinted legally according to NY Law as it is written. There is no enforcement against them, while window film installers are punished.

Doesn't federal law supercede state law? One example being the state of California allows the use, sale, cultivation and distribution of cannabis as long as it is within the state statutes. But one could be pursecuted on a federal level even though they complie with state laws. So naturally I would think the state would have a hard time pursuing national manufacturers covered by federal regulations. While aftermarket applications clearly fall within the states jurisdiction.

In an even more painful twist, New York law now allows dark tinting on out-of-state vehicles driven in NY as long as the tinting complies with the state law where that vehicle is registered. In other words, they are giving preferential treatment to non-NY residents. I would love to meet the legislator that wrote that clause.

It is the same in my state. While I can agree about preferential treatment, the fact is that state vehicle codes are designed for those that reside in their state. For example a lot of states now require emission inspections annually but this does not mean that vehicles travelling into/through their jurisdiction are required to pass said emission inspections. Although, there are many examples that apply to both sides of the coin.

I think you are taking my opinion to mean that I whole heartedly agree with all tinting regulations, which is not the case at all. It is just my suggestion to abide by them. I agree there is a double standard when it comes to factory/aftermarket window coatings but one is protected by federal regulations and the other is not. Maybe the big national auto film manufacturers should concentrate some of their profits towards lobbying for blanket federal regulations for aftermarket window coatings, as opposed to outselling each other. :eyebrows Maybe I am naive in my thinking but this is something that was obviously done (in some form or fashion) by auto/glass manufacturers some time ago.

There were 400-500 tint shops that woke up one day and were suddenly legislated out of business.

There have been PLENTY of other industries that have suffered the same fate. In alot of cases rightfully so....but this does not change anything. These laws are made by officials WE as a people have elected, it is up to us to abide by them or to change them through whatever means necessary. Why have the national brands not petitioned for their dealers that have kept them in business?

While I know it is not the case it seems as though you are suggesting for folks to carry on as usual, despite their state regulations, on the premise that the laws are not fair. We collectively as an industry have the power to change this or atleast bring light to it. Until then my suggestion (and stance) will always be ABIDE BY THE LAWS YOU ARE GOVERNED BY or choose a different career. Or take the risk....no skin off my ass.

September 21, 2011

I'm not going to argue with either of you guys... But explain to me how it's right that a detective's car, or just a every day state police car can have between a 10% and 20% film on ALL the windows? It's still a vehicle register under the PA state law, what say's that it's ok to have those car's tinted?

September 21, 2011

a badge ...

blade · September 21, 2011

police vehicles are exempt.

September 21, 2011

a badge ...

very true

September 21, 2011

police vehicles are exempt.

But what makes them so special? It's an everyday car just like the rest of our's. Is it actually stated in the hand book that they are? (Again, not trying to argue about it lol. Just curious)

blade · September 21, 2011

what makes them so special?? refer back to slayer's post. same reason they don't need tabs on their plates. same reason they can do whatever speed limit they want. same reason they can talk on their cell phones or use their computers while driving. because they're cops. :spit

September 21, 2011

police vehicles are exempt.

But what makes them so special? It's an everyday car just like the rest of our's. Is it actually stated in the hand book that they are? (Again, not trying to argue about it lol. Just curious)

Some people (coppers) are (above) the law.

Some people (us plebs) have to live by it.