Sputtering or Dye Bath?? Which is Better??

[SolarTintWF]

Depends on what process is being taken (dye and sputtering)

 

Because reflective films REJECT more heat way from the glass it tends to last longer.

 

But I have seen DYED films last longer than some Reflective/Sputtered films. 

Ultimately a reflective film will generally last longer. Perhaps we can answer this question to company

like MADICO who has had both technologies for quite a while now. 

[EWF]

Global (Garware) has a vacuum metalizer with oxidation capabilities.  There is no need for sputtering in their range at present. 

 

We absolutely don't want any sputtered metals in the auto films - they are known signal blockers.

 

You could argue that it might be nice to have sputtering capacity for the ceramic deposition, but as you can see from the stellar solar performance on the Global Auto Ceramics, they do just fine without it.  Sputtering is a more precise and elegant way to deposit those nano particles, but coating them onto the inner surface gets the job done extremely well.   The nano material is just as stable no matter what deposition method is used.

 

Check the performance:  http://globalwindowfilms.com/pdf/qdp-ceramic-films-specifications.pdf

 

-Howard

[Booms]

I love Howard....

 

And Smartie2Shoes....I feel so knowledgeable after reading what they write.

[EWF]

Depends on what process is being taken (dye and sputtering)

 

Because reflective films REJECT more heat way from the glass it tends to last longer.

 

But I have seen DYED films last longer than some Reflective/Sputtered films. 

Ultimately a reflective film will generally last longer. Perhaps we can answer this question to company

like MADICO who has had both technologies for quite a while now. 

 

When the question is posed in this manner, there are far too many variables to provide an answer.

 

First of all - you need to define the failure mode.  What are we talking about here?  Gain in VLT?  Loss of solar reflective properties?  Change in color? Oxidation of the metal?  Adhesive failure?  What about hybrids that combine both elements?

 

-Howard

[EWF]

I love Howard....

 

Awe schucks Booms.  Right back at you !!

 

-Howard

[Bham]

Global (Garware) has a vacuum metalizer with oxidation capabilities.  There is no need for sputtering in their range at present. 

 

We absolutely don't want any sputtered metals in the auto films - they are known signal blockers.

 

You could argue that it might be nice to have sputtering capacity for the ceramic deposition, but as you can see from the stellar solar performance on the Global Auto Ceramics, they do just fine without it.  Sputtering is a more precise and elegant way to deposit those nano particles, but coating them onto the inner surface gets the job done extremely well.   The nano material is just as stable no matter what deposition method is used.

 

Check the performance:  http://globalwindowfilms.com/pdf/qdp-ceramic-films-specifications.pdf

 

-Howard

The numbers are partly why I ask questions like this.  I have seen the numbers, and almost NO ONE can compare to Global's numbers  

 

Which is why when someone says.... "but so and so had sputtering technology"...    does that REALLY matter??  Again, Look at the numbers.  

 

Thanks again for the great knowledge Howard and Richard    

[Booms]

 

Awe schucks Booms.  Right back at you !!

 

-Howard

 

 

[vquestfilms.com]

Darn... I missed the party.

 

Sputtering pros:

 

• You can sputter materials like rare metals, certain alloys, ceramics, nano scale particles that you cannot vapor deposit
• Sputtering allows for precision stacking of very small particles in 1 atom thick layers. You can even vary the direction they are stacked and thus make a reflective metal look almost non-reflective (ie. Huper Drei, Sech, Vk 70, Hilite 70, etc)
• The optical quality when small particle material is sputtered on good PET is off the chart. Compare it to other methods, you will notice a difference and so will your customers.

Sputtering Cons:

 

• Expensive
• Slow to mfg... aka- expensive

 

Sputtering is a method of depositing material to a substrate. It is not magic, films no matter how they are made all filter the same 3 solar regions of the spectrum in varying levels. There are other methods as has been mentioned. Each has their pros and cons. I would always recommend that you:

 

• Compare specs
• Compare optical quality
• Compare durability
• Compare warranty
• Compare who you feel comfortable doing business with
• and then... choose your product.

[vquestfilms.com]

You can sputter coat and produce a dye-free film but you cannot deep dye and deposit metal to a film's substrate that I know of. In order to add metal to a deep dyed film, you have to laminate a metalized layer and that layer has to be produced by vapor coating or sputtering. There are liquid suspensions but I am not sure if any are metal and usually they are put in a film's laminate layer so that does not constitute being mfg'd with the deep dying process.

 

Btw... Sputtered TiN has not been not showing any signal issues. I've seen binder paper kill signal in a back window antenna...

[EWF]

Rob,

 

Once again - an eloquent and educational post.  You are never late for the party Rob.  The party waits for you, sir.

 

Yes - to produce a sputtered/dyed hybrid would require more than one layer.  Once the film has been deep-dip dyed, you can no longer sputter coat that layer.  That is also my understanding.

 

Just one thing to add on the PET:

 

All PET used in the construction of window film MUST contain some level of haze and impurity.  It is put in there on purpose.  If not for the surface roughness provided by the contaminant, you would never be able to wind it onto roll.

 

By way of reference, take a look at this datasheet for Toray's Lumirror U65 base PET, considered to be one of the best you can use to build window film.

 

http://www.toraytpa.com/sites/default/files/data_sheets/LUM_PS-0132_U65-DATASHEET_ENGLISH.pdf

 

You will notice that they publish a haze of 1.4%.  Since most quality films these days are at least 2 Ply, you can double it.

 

Can Toray make base PET closer to 0% haze?  You bet - but good luck trying to wind it onto a film core.

 

-Howard