Tintguy1980

Easy technical explanation of the difference between Crystalline and regular 'ceramic' labeled products, including 3Ms:

Crystalline is designed to 'reflect' NIR (Near Infrared, the sun's energy we 'feel' first) as opposed to 'ceramic' products absorbing. Absorbing translates into feeling the sun's energy radiating off the window as your arm is rested next to it. Therefore, Crystalline is superior to ceramics.  This is the pitch I would make to you as a buyer.

Maybe the dealer you spoke with simply doesn't want to pay the price for a roll of the product.

I've had Crystalline 40 on my front door glass for 8 yrs now and it shows zero sign of any degradation in color, performance and clarity.

Crystalline would be better than AIR80 for the windshield as well.

Crap shoot.

On 6/3/2024 at 10:00 PM, doctor4766 said:

I hope the tinter charged you for the re-tint you made him do.

I hope he didn't; makes for excellent business goodwill and PR.

 

Sounds like you just experienced dry adhesive, which chemically forms a bond between glass and adhesive. It is the most successful adhesive for long term visual quality and bond strength (longevity). It IS a real bear to remove at any point after it chemically cures to the glass (usually within 30 days). Lots of blades and elbow grease for sure.

My method was to scrape a strip and yank, scrape a strip and yank ... again and again until time to remove the residual adhesive. There are not many 'safe' chemicals that can be used to 'easily' remove it. I do know that a dry adhesive will come away from the surface of glass a little easier when the surface temp is below 40 F. Who has that kind of opportunity other than those in Canada/Alaska type environments. Sad.

You can try using 000 or 0000 steel wool in an attempt to remove those marks. Outside of this I cannot remember any others ideas for tackling that.

Yeah, dual-pane glazing units can fail at any point in time from day 1 and up. It's rare in the first couple of seasonal cycles, but you never know until it shows itself.

Dual and Triple pane systems rely on the seal between glass and spacer. Even there they can have a single seal; glass to spacer, or a double seal that wraps the outer edges and seals (encapsulates) spacer and glass as well. The latter is found in high quality glazing systems. The former brings trouble before its time.

The gas or dead air space between the panes has zero to little impact of failure of seals. Once a seal is compromised (for whatever reason), moisture intrusion occurs. It can be visible to the eye when cool and it can be microscopically invisible. What produces the visible lines, smudges, spots, etc. is the desiccant (located in the spacer to absorb any minute moisture). Kind of like the dry packets used in shipping goods.

Desiccant gets wet, heats up to vapor from sun exposure, it deposits on the interior of the system and once the sun dries it, you get a number of different aforementioned looks; some obvious, some not so much until film is applied.

You can have the one sash replaced, either through warranty based on seal failure or by out of pocket cost. Be sure you let the window folks know the other panes do not display the same as the one in question. They have a tendency to baselessly blame seal failure on applied window film, which our industry has dispelled through long term studies using the 'right' window film for the system.

Good luck

On 5/22/2024 at 9:27 AM, PPA said:

Hi, new to the forum but a previous lurker. Was wondering if you guys had any suggestions on tints for a business in Puerto Rico who's windows face north (humidity 80% temp 70-100). Main concern is heat reduction though i would like for it to not be super dark since it is a work area. 

 

Have not contacted  installers yet since I wanted to have some knowledge about products and specs beforehand to make sure im getting what i need.

Thank you!

 

From what i've gathered i should look out for: dual reflective film and low absorptive/high solar reflection products

 

used this topic among others for research:

"should be a go-to such as: 3M's Night Vision15 or NV25, Vista Film's Dual Reflective18 or DR 28, LLumar's DR15 or DR25 (which closely matches 3M NV), or Madico's Optivision in and around the same number assignment. The numbers assigned to films represent the visible light transmission of the product."

"The higher the reflectivity of a film product, the better when dealing with desert heat."

PPA,

The best info given is in the post you quoted. A product with an 05 designation runs counterintuitive to what you said about 'to not be super dark'. With 05 films, think limousine window darkness.

On 5/24/2024 at 8:23 AM, klauskjrnet@gmail.com said:

Did you install on the inside or outside? We always install the film on the outside (specially if it's double glass with air or gass between)

If you install on inside it will be to much heat and crack is possible. 

 

good luck 

The above post is a bit controversial and naive in nature.

May I suggest improving technical knowledge by using a film-to-glass chart, IWFA's study on window film use on dual pane glazing systems, and glass itself.

Air/gas used in dual and triple pane glazing systems has zero impact on what gets installed.

Absorption rate of film and glass edge quality impact the aforementioned glazing systems most. The film used in the OP has absolutely no reason to be installed to the exterior surface. Neither do the vast majority of film products that carry an absorption rate less than 50%.

Start searching for good quality information to better serve you and your clients.

And finally, installing on the exterior maybe has a life expectancy of 5-7 years before seeing degradation. Properly installing a product deigned for the interior (on the inside) increases life expectancy up 20-25 years, depending on the quality of the film.

Captain Obvious has two cents err senses to share:

1) The film should be removed and replaced, because it appears to have adhesive blemishes that shouldn't be there, and

2) The film should be reviewed/inspected once taken from the roll to avoid losing time and resources due to manufacturing issues. Little pieces not so much, but back glass and windscreen pieces ... definitely.

I would direct you to Express Window Films web site.

They sell Global brand after setting up an account with them. They are reasonably priced and they do partials.

Can't go wrong with Global.

Never overlook the condition of the floor.

Back when I did install, I used to mist the floor between the vehicle and the peel board.

This is done between misting the window and walking toward the peel board to mist the pattern liner, peel liner and spray adhesive for install.

Tacks any dust for the duration of each pattern install, so repeat each time a pattern is going to be installed.

Yeah, at least a decade ago rumored to be different as a result of a US based manufacturer making Olfa blades sold here at home.

Of course, Olfa would deny coupling up with a US maker.

I, too, switched to NT.

Follow up:

Attached is the performance data for Johnson's Resi/Comm window films and if you look to the bottom you'll see DN50 has a solar absorption of 39%, which is well below the threshold of concern which is generally accepted as 50% absorption (with no shadow). With a straight line shading from the roof this does increase the risk, which is usually low for straight line shading compared to other types. I've also attached a pdf of Johnson's film-to-glass chart which is used to determine how safe a film is. The thicker the glass the higher the risk; you say 6mm tempered and 4mm is the cracked one (interior pane).

The question now is what compass direction do these panels face?

In the end, I'll just suggest you hook back up with the person that installed it and get his input. He had to have been comfortable suggesting that film. I still believe it's a one off cracked panel and the rest will be fine. It takes 2 seasonal cycles to know for sure. Truly your call as to whether or not to replace with something lighter such as DN60.

Here's more helpful info that helps you question the glass type on the interior; is it plate or is it heat-strengthened (HS). I believe it is plate and not tempered or HS. Why?

Plate glass with suffer thermal shock if the edge temperature is different than the center of the glass by 50 degrees F.

Heat strengthened requires 100 degree F difference, and

Tempered requires 200 degree F difference.

Ryker chimed in and that stimulated further review. Good Luck with this.

johnsonFilmToGlass_2021.pdf

The crack indicates thermal stress, however, the edge of the glass may have an imperfection (bur or clam shell chip). The crack does run 90 degrees out from the edge and curves as it follows any weaknesses in the pane itself. I have attached a pictured of what tempered glass looks like when it breaks and alongside it what a plate (or float) and heat-strengthened glass looks like when it breaks.

The outer panel my be tempered should indicate so by a stamp etched on the glass surface in one corner. It should indicate tempered. Plate glass has no indicators, however, heat-strengthened glass will crack in the same manner as plate glass. I'm an unsure whether heat-strengthened glass requires a stamp.

Tempered glass is 4 times stronger than plate and heat-strengthened is 2 times stronger than plate.

1 in 24 is indicative of edge imperfection.

I could not find the solar absorption rate of DN 50, but if it is similar to competitive films, there should be no issue with that installation setting (including a straight line shadow). This, too, points back to edge imperfection as the cause.

And finally, I spy drapes in a close position, correct? If so, it would be helpful to crack open during sun exposure; this to assist in allowing trapped heat between the glass and drapes to dissipate.

Take a look at 3M's Nightvision or LLumar's Dual Reflective series, they both have a warm tone to them.

Hook up with Glassy Business and get all the ins and outs of pro vs DIY with window film.

That company goes back way before my retirement in 2015. I want to believe they are/were a Vista Film dealer and I cannot remember the owner's name.

Peace out.

Forgot to mention; if your house is under HOA, you may have to check in with them. Some, eh hem, many seemingly shy away from having a reflective look to the glass. A dual reflective with a visible light transmission of 35% (ex: NV35) would likely be more palatable to HOA, but not so happy for the owner.

Your position to take with them is: The higher the reflectivity of a film product, the better when dealing with desert heat.

There exists a necessary (physics) compromise in every window film transaction. Can't please all parties.

Glad I could help educate.

3 hours ago, Recoil said:

Hi folks,

I have south facing double pane windows that get a lot sun here in Las Vegas. Those windows get extremely hot and I want to get them tinted. I do not mind if they are black, mirror, dark, light, etc. I am looking for performance blocking the heat without doing a complete blackout.

Initially I was thinking of going with 3M Prestige 70 since 3M is the only reputable brand I could think but I did read a few posts here in the forum and I see that there is other brands with perhaps better products like “Huper Optik”.

Personally knowing what it's like in Vegas when it's hot, I would stir clear of any film TSER performance value less than 60% or a solar heat gain value greater than 40%. Prestige does not fit this and would be  a big waste of good money.

Huper Optiks' ceramic products have high solar energy absorption rates, so in hot environments these kind high absorptive films run counterintuitive to the use of the product while using air conditioning to cooling the interior. High absorption on the inside pane, where most films are applied will radiate that absorbed heat toward the room. Outside breezes across the exterior surface of the window will not be as effective in cooling down the interior than say a low absorptive film, high solar reflection film product.

In this case, low absorptive/high solar reflection products should be a go-to such as: 3M's Night Vision15 or NV25, Vista Film's Dual Reflective18 or DR 28, LLumar's DR15 or DR25 (which closely matches 3M NV), or Madico's Optivision in and around the same number assignment. The numbers assigned to films represent the visible light transmission of the product.

When a dealer comes out to assess and likely have and leave samples, use the samples as sunglasses by wrapping over your eyes a viewing out and in the room. This gives you a more precise idea of what the film will look like once applied. A small sample placed on the glass will always appear darker than having the entire panel tinted.

Good luck.

 

Dry shrink is akin to moving from the horse and buggy age to the age of automobiles; not only innovative, but you find yourself getting to your destination quicker. Dry shrink is also less damaging to the chemical properties of the film itself.

And like Bham has pointed out in different words, work smart not harder. TD mentioned the wet check after dry shrinking, which is a technique used by many in the early stages of learning to dry shrink.

Plenty of demos on Youtube.

15 hours ago, metagamers said:

question: when polishing glass will it impact the visibility after?

Any impact from polishing, if the mar responds to polishing, would result in no or little visible trace.

Anyone experienced in buffing glass will likely say, no guarantees; unless they've experienced the same mar on glass.

2 hours ago, unrecognized88 said:

Wow thank you for the comment about the tax advantage. I'll definitely have this noted for my taxes. And thank you for the recommendation for Madico Optivision. For $47 more, I would not mind going with them after what you said.

 

On that Madico proposal, I've been going back and forth about the Front Bedroom. These windows NEED to have a mirror like finish and I'm between the 25 and 35. The 25 is definitely very mirrorlike, but I'm afraid it might be too much for a set of windows facing the street, so possibly the 35 would be better? What are your thoughts? Attaching a picture of the front windows that currently have this Kespen tint I bought off Amazon. Which of the 25 or 35 would be closest to this finish?

 

I'm okay with doing 25 on the Master Bedroom though since it's in the back of the house and facing West. I don't have any neighbors directly behind me due to it being a greenspace where a pipeline runs underground. I've had the samples up and keep going back to look at them, but it's sometimes hard to tell.

 

I don't have a sample of the 45 for the living room, but I think that's as high as it goes, so I'm fine with 45 to allow max amount of natural light through.

 

 

 

The first picture appears to be similar to a 25%. Front of house?

The second picture with 2 shades pulled down should get 25%, especially if facing West.

The third picture should get 45%. The compromise is lesser privacy, while providing greater incoming light (already shaded from patio overhead).

Small samples provided by the dealer don't give you a good sense of what the film will look like once installed. There is too much light streaming in around the sample (when taped to the glass), making the film look darker than what it will look like installed.

The best and most accurate way to see what it will look like, viewing out, is to use the sample as quasi-sunglasses by wrapping it around your face and eyes (to the point of no light leaking in). Now, look toward the window(s). Viola`, there's your tinted view.

As to the tax benefit, do check with a pro tax person just in case they no longer have that program. I've been retired for almost a decade now.

50 minutes ago, unrecognized88 said:

Thanks. I am slightly leaning towards the Suntek now due to the installer dropping the price a bit for me. He's willing to do $1,365 plus tax. Or if I pay cash, then tax will be excluded. 

 

Slate and Optivision installer says there's no sales tax because "Residential is non-taxable in Texas because the film is considered a home improvement"

A simple google ask tells you it residential installs of film are not taxable; labor and material. If they are collecting tax, they're in for a world of hurt, if discovered.

There's also this: For solar films, the tax advantages are even greater. The US Department of Energy allows you to claim up to 30% of the cost, including installation fees.

You may want to ask your tax prep person about this.
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My choice of the three films for the home would be Madico. Why? They've had a solid product for as long as my career goes back. They are also one of the founders of the window film industry (mid to late 50's last century, along with 3M and LLumar), whereby the other two came along years later; SolarGard then Suntek, respectively.

I used to sell SolarGard and got away from them when they had a rash of failures in the late 80's, moving to LLumar/Vista.

Suntek is owned by Eastman Chemical, who also owns many other brands and is known for producing components other brands will buy and use. Suntek was bought by Eastman about ten years ago to work as an entry level product (lower cost product) in comparison to their LLumar, Vista, Huper Optiks, V-kool brands for residential/commercial glass.

Eastman Chem is the fifth generation owner of the film plant in Henry Co. Virginia.

Little tough and time consuming to walk someone through the process using words. See if either of these will help:

9 hours ago, doctor4766 said:

You're right,  it really annoyed me that someone of my experience should be attacked by an amateur who thought he knew every square inch of his vehicle.

This day and age we have armchair rookie experts calling out true to form experts with decades of experience. Case in point our own Dr. Fauci with a career spanning 50 yrs studying virus and bacteria getting trounced during the Covid crisis.