Evolution vs Creation

[Guest filmdit]

I believe when Jesus says "If you have seen me you have seen the father," is the same as if you have seen me then you have seen my Dad.

Even if you were to interpret it as the father = god, it would still coincide with another statement made that goes something like this, Man was made in the likeness of god... which if this were in fact true, then humanity as a whole could be considered god.

Brings to mind the movie Matrix and how there existed interconnectivity among the masses aka the symbolism in humanity being connected via the soul, which in turn is also connected with god.

[Protint]

In the "likeness of" is different then being the same as. We can't be sinnless because we are born into sin. Sin is in our lineage (spell check) Jesus's lineage being God was sinnless and that is why he was able to remane sinnless.

[Guest VOLTRON]

was god really being sinnless when he was raining fire and brimstone?

[Guest Sprinter]

In the "likeness of" is different then being the same as. We can't be sinnless because we are born into sin. Sin is in our lineage (spell check) Jesus's lineage being God was sinnless and that is why he was able to remane sinnless.

that's also why the birth through a virgin, to show that God through the Holly Spirit over came her and created that child (Jesus) in her, so as to not have the sin trait in him.

if she got pregnat after the wedding then everyone would of thought that Joseph was the father.

[Guest Sprinter]

was god really being sinnless when he was raining fire and brimstone?

he was taking the lives that he created that were completly sinning against him and not excepting him as God, they completly walked away from the word and belife of God.

[Guest VOLTRON]

so he wasnt sinning?

[Guest tintman AZ]

I have to disagree. there are no transitory fossil figures in the record, if evolution were true there would be countless transitory fossil figures, but there isn't a single one.

It takes more faith to believe in evolution than it does the Bible.

Fossil remains show that living things in the remote past were very different from living things today.

Life has changed through time (evolved).

A dramatic proof of the thesis that life has changed through time is seen in the fossil record of the vertebrates, animals having a segmented backbone. At the beginning of the Cambrian Period (570-500 million years ago), there were no vertebrates at all. Later in the Cambrian, problematic forms appeared which seem to have been related to the vertebrates, but showed distant affinities with the echinoderms as well. (Echinoderms today are represented by starfish, sea lilies, sea cucumbers, etc.; embryologically they appear to compose the phylum most closely related to the Chordata, the phylum to which vertebrates belong.) Toward the end of the Cambrian Period, the first vertebrates appeared: the ostracoderms, jawless fishes possessed of a bony armor plate and having flattened bodies apparently adapted to a bottom-feeding way of life.

According to the fossil record, vertebrates went without jaws for many millions of years. Finally, at the beginning of the Devonian Period (395-345 million years ago), the first fish with jaws entered their remains into the record in the rocks. At the very end of the Devonian or the beginning of the Carboniferous Period (345-280 million years ago), the first primitive amphibians arose. These fish-like animals differed from their air-breathing fish ancestors mostly in their elaboration of the bony structure of the paired appendages - converting fins into hands and feet - and in reinforcement of the structures attaching the paired appendages to the spinal column. The first reptiles did not appear until the last half of the Carboniferous Period.

To give the lie to creationist claims that there are no connecting-link fossils to join the vertebrate classes, the Permian Period (280-225 million years ago) saw the appearance of an entire order of animals, the mammal-like reptiles (Therapsida), which can be seen to change with time from typical, primitive reptiles, into primitive mammals. It was not until late in the Triassic Period (225-190 million years ago) that the therapsid-mammal transmutation was complete. Contrary to the first chapter of Genesis, which claims that the first mammals appeared on the earth a mere twenty-four hours after the first fish, the first mammals did not appear on earth until more than 300 million years of fish evolution had transpired!

Birds, which, according to both creation myths in Genesis, were created on the same day as fish, do not enter the fossil record until the Jurassic Period (190-136 million years ago). Representing an ultimate variation on the dinosaur theme, birds trace their descent from reptiles quite different from those ancestral to the mammals. Contrary to the claims of some creationists, evolutionists do not claim that reptiles evolved into birds, and birds evolved into mammals!

Even though the first mammals appeared in the Triassic Period, forms for which the English language has names would not appear until the late Cretaceous (136-65 million years ago), when opossum-like forms appeared, the Eocene Epoch (60-40 million years ago), when primitive whales originated, and the Oligocene Epoch (40-25 million years ago), when apes, monkeys, and primitive grazing mammals appeared.

The record in the rocks, thus, is evidence either for fishes evolving into birds and mammals, or it is evidence of thousands of successive "special creations" - magical replacements of successive faunas by slightly different ones. Curiously, the latter interpretation is as unbiblical as it is unscientific.

If either of the biblical myths were true, all types of vertebrates - living types of mammals, birds, reptiles, amphibians, and fishes - would be found along with bacteria and trilobites at the very beginning of the fossil record and would be extractable from all rock layers of later ages. But of course, nothing could be farther from reality. The infamous "gaps in the fossil record," adduced by creationists as evidence against evolution, are actually a devastating refutation of the idea that all forms of life were miraculously zapped onto the earth at the same time!

[Guest filmdit]

Nice find T-AZ... very interesting read, indeed.

I have always wondered why there seem to be holes in creationism theory, not to mention that all writings seem to only stem from the Middle East and its surrounding regions and not mention one iota of man of other parts of the world. Example would be, the Eskimo tribes that existed 2000 years ago on the North American continent, who possibly with an absolute absence of knowing what the Romans were doing to a man named Jesus back in the Middle East.

[wndotint]

I did not contradict myself. Homosexuality is a sin. Lying is a sin. God still loves the person committing the sin. Where is the contradiction?

Is a judge on the bench in a court of law, who hands down the death sentence on a person deserving of such sentence, doing the wrong thing (sinning)? God is the ultimate judge. Who do you think will be in charge on Judgement Day? God was absolutely NOT sinning when he destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. If you believe God rained down fire and brimstone, why not believe the rest of His mighty works? Oh yeah, do you know why Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed? Genesis 18 and 19 paint a pretty clear picture of the values held by the people there. "But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, ?Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have s*x with them!? Gen. 19:4-5

Christians have been ridiculed and persecuted from the beginning for believing. Matthew 24:9 says ?Then you will be arrested, persecuted, and killed. You will be hated all over the world because you are my followers."

John 15:20 says "Do you remember what I told you? ?A slave is not greater than the master.? Since they persecuted me, naturally they will persecute you. And if they had listened to me, they would listen to you."

How could I not know anything about the theory of evolution? It is crammed down kid's throats at school and it's everywhere on television.

What happened to the cross-species breeding problem? Ask your local pro-evolution expert about that one.

Eve being created from Adam's rib is only 1 example of God's power. Just like parting the Red Sea, feeding 5000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish, healed the blind, lame and sick, not to mention raising the dead, including Jesus.

This all comes down to what you believe. I will never change what I believe. You may not either. At least what I believe in gives hope of something better. I believe that I was created in the image of God, not from any other species. I also believe that God is 3 in 1. My feeble brain can't comprehend MOST of what God is, what he has done, or what he is capable of. I can not truly understand being 3 different entities but still being 1. That is irrelevant. It does not matter what anyone believes regarding God. He will be the same.

One final question. How do you feel when you (pro-evolutionists) feel when you read what we (pro-creationists) type/say? What do you feel deep inside? When I read what you have to say, I am saddened. I feel like I am fighting an unwinnable war. I am not a theological expert, nor am I very good in a debate. Like I said before, evolution and creation are theories to most. Maybe 1 is a theory and the other is a joke. I don't believe that creation and all that the Bible has to say is at all a theory. I have seen God at work in my life.

When the signs from Revelation begin to unfold more and more, I hope that you will see the signs and want to form a relationship with Christ before it's too late.

[Guest filmdit]

One final question. How do you feel when you (pro-evolutionists) feel when you read what we (pro-creationists) type/say? What do you feel deep inside? When I read what you have to say, I am saddened. I feel like I am fighting an unwinnable war. I am not a theological expert, nor am I very good in a debate. Like I said before, evolution and creation are theories to most. Maybe 1 is a theory and the other is a joke. I don't believe that creation and all that the Bible has to say is at all a theory. I have seen God at work in my life.

I feel the same as you when on the other side of this discussion, although I do not pray for you as has been said to me on more than one occasion (e.g. It saddens me, I'll pray for you), I pray for all humankind. A prayer can essentially be wasted if the person being prayed for is not receptive to it or not willing to accept its promise.

I can and accept you and others for who you/they are and what you/they believe in... it's in my nature and seemingly contrary to what others have said about my words and speaking toward others on this board... which in reality are simply 'an opinion'.

It was once asked of me, "Are you anti-christian?" and it was a friend from halfway around the world who came forward to answer it for me. He said, "I do not believe metint is anti-christian, he is anti-bigotry". Perfect as an answer could get in describing me.

When the signs from Revelation begin to unfold more and more, I hope that you will see the signs and want to form a relationship with Christ before it's too late.

My relation is with the same omnipotent one Jesus had in his day, God the Almighty.

The more we humans focus on a belief, the more it becomes reality... so when it comes to revelations my choice is not to allow it to become a reality in my mind nor my life. Hence, you will become what you think and believe (you need only pray and visualize it).

I thought I would train for a major mfg one day, held to that belief and so it was.

Great post wndotint