3M Prestige 70/60 vs. Huper Optik

November 6, 2008

I have used both products so I am not bias for one over the other. I find it interesting how you bash 3M based on the hard coat surface issue, well let me tell you I put up Ceramic 30 on my front entry door to the shop and within 2 years the hard coat surface started to flake off just like the hardcoat did on Solargard back in the 90's. I have also had a few installs with Huper from a few years ago call back with problems. Alot of you voting for one or the other may not even have used either film.

Well time will only tell that HO maybe on the way out the door.Or they will change their name-like DTI to Beakert.

Why would HO change their name?

Why did Courtalds,DTI change their name?Maybe because of mass amounts of film failure.The longest running film manny is 3M who has many other resources than others so they never changed even though their film products are subpar.

Do you know for sure that was the reason for the name change? Do you know for sure that Huper is having enough film failure that they are considering a name change? Be careful what you spout...

I know that you do not know who the longest running film manny is which may be indicative about your knowledge of the answers to the above questions... strike one!

I said MAYBE a future name change.So strike one......Then what film manny has the largest name recognition, that has had major film failure,that has not changed their name?

If you are trying to avoid liability you change ownership or dissolve your company, a name change alone will not cut it. Besides, why would you not change the branding name and only the company name? There is more to those story, read the book.

"Maybe's" are speculation based on hunches with little to no hard data. So what's HO's failure rate? One guy reports HC failure, time for a name change! Strike two! Everyone has had a conversion issue such as a bad run of HC...

as you well know the mannys always change something about the films that are sold every 7 to 10 years.So historic hunches such as Martin Processing-Courtalds-CpFilms:DTI-Beakert seemed to have had changes shortly after experiencing mass amounts of film failure.You forgot to answer who has the greatest name recognition with major film failures and never changed their name?

And you forgot to answerwhy would you not change the branding name and only the company name? Do you know for sure that film failure was why the name change went from Martin to Courtalds to CP Films? Why didn't they change Llumar to a different brand name? Your reasoning makes no sense... why hasn't Madico changed their name? They had massive failure in the early 90's. Their I answered your question now you can answer mine. Oh... btw there's your answer to the who the longest running film manny is...

when courtalds bought martins the paid 60,000.000 for it. it had nothing to do with film failure or name changes, just business. 10 years or so ago, another player (ppg) offered 500,000.000 for the raw materials and window film side of courtalds and they turned it down. just a little history for the historic hunches.

Thank you for your answer.

November 6, 2008

I have used both products so I am not bias for one over the other. I find it interesting how you bash 3M based on the hard coat surface issue, well let me tell you I put up Ceramic 30 on my front entry door to the shop and within 2 years the hard coat surface started to flake off just like the hardcoat did on Solargard back in the 90's. I have also had a few installs with Huper from a few years ago call back with problems. Alot of you voting for one or the other may not even have used either film.

Well time will only tell that HO maybe on the way out the door.Or they will change their name-like DTI to Beakert.

Why would HO change their name?

Why did Courtalds,DTI change their name?Maybe because of mass amounts of film failure.The longest running film manny is 3M who has many other resources than others so they never changed even though their film products are subpar.

Do you know for sure that was the reason for the name change? Do you know for sure that Huper is having enough film failure that they are considering a name change? Be careful what you spout...

I know that you do not know who the longest running film manny is which may be indicative about your knowledge of the answers to the above questions... strike one!

I said MAYBE a future name change.So strike one......Then what film manny has the largest name recognition, that has had major film failure,that has not changed their name?

If you are trying to avoid liability you change ownership or dissolve your company, a name change alone will not cut it. Besides, why would you not change the branding name and only the company name? There is more to those story, read the book.

"Maybe's" are speculation based on hunches with little to no hard data. So what's HO's failure rate? One guy reports HC failure, time for a name change! Strike two! Everyone has had a conversion issue such as a bad run of HC...

as you well know the mannys always change something about the films that are sold every 7 to 10 years.So historic hunches such as Martin Processing-Courtalds-CpFilms:DTI-Beakert seemed to have had changes shortly after experiencing mass amounts of film failure.You forgot to answer who has the greatest name recognition with major film failures and never changed their name?

And you forgot to answerwhy would you not change the branding name and only the company name? Do you know for sure that film failure was why the name change went from Martin to Courtalds to CP Films? Why didn't they change Llumar to a different brand name? Your reasoning makes no sense... why hasn't Madico changed their name? They had massive failure in the early 90's. Their I answered your question now you can answer mine. Oh... btw there's your answer to the who the longest running film manny is...

Thanks again for your in depth knowledge of this subject.Now can you tell me what happened to DTI to Beakert?I used DTI in In 1988 t0 1993.At first it seemed to be a very good product both auto and flat.Suddenly the f/g film required me to service hundreds and hundreds of windows because of HC failure.While dealing with this issue auto film was shrinking .I mean layers were separating up to a 1/4".Then they became Beakert about 1 1/2 years later.V I do believe that you are one of the most knowledgeable or the most knowledgeable I have ever came across.I never thought anyone could have the time to research so much about this industry and still run a business.PROPS TO YOU!

November 6, 2008

Thanks again for your in depth knowledge of this subject.Now can you tell me what happened to DTI to Beakert?I used DTI in In 1988 t0 1993.At first it seemed to be a very good product both auto and flat.Suddenly the f/g film required me to service hundreds and hundreds of windows because of HC failure.While dealing with this issue auto film was shrinking .I mean layers were separating up to a 1/4".Then they became Beakert about 1 1/2 years later.V I do believe that you are one of the most knowledgeable or the most knowledgeable I have ever came across.I never thought anyone could have the time to research so much about this industry and still run a business.PROPS TO YOU!

Thanks, but I don't know everything... just been around for a while and like you I accumulate a lot of experience in my skill.

Bekaert Specialty Films is owned by Bekaert Europe out of Belgium. So it is not just a window film MFG in San Diego. I don't remember the whole story with them but I do know the change was not due to film failure probably more of an alignment with the parent company...

November 29, 2008

I didn't vote, But I would say sech over presitgey any day. The ceramics tend to have a scary absorbsion % but in light films like the ceramic 60 your fine. Sech has also been around alot longer and somewhat tested time for that matter compared to its mmm counterpart. Unfortunately neither films offers the end user to get a competitive price because of the purchasing ristrictions to even the most qualified of dealers and installers. Nowadays its seams you have to have deep pockets and less skill to get brands like this.........unless of course you live in the middle of non competitorville, then your there best friend.

February 20, 2009

I didn't vote, But I would say sech over presitgey any day. The ceramics tend to have a scary absorbsion % but in light films like the ceramic 60 your fine. Sech has also been around alot longer and somewhat tested time for that matter compared to its mmm counterpart. Unfortunately neither films offers the end user to get a competitive price because of the purchasing ristrictions to even the most qualified of dealers and installers. Nowadays its seams you have to have deep pockets and less skill to get brands like this.........unless of course you live in the middle of non competitorville, then your there best friend.

:beer

February 21, 2009

I didn't vote, But I would say sech over presitgey any day. The ceramics tend to have a scary absorbsion % but in light films like the ceramic 60 your fine. Sech has also been around alot longer and somewhat tested time for that matter compared to its mmm counterpart. Unfortunately neither films offers the end user to get a competitive price because of the purchasing ristrictions to even the most qualified of dealers and installers. Nowadays its seams you have to have deep pockets and less skill to get brands like this.........unless of course you live in the middle of non competitorville, then your there best friend.

so...are you the deep pockets, less skilled guy...?...

ive only been tinting for 1 year :bingo you've laid enough ho to vote .just swallow your pride and vote

March 1, 2009

This is my favorite Thread on this site.

I print out the first page and take it with me on every res/com estimate.

If the customer asks how my film compares to MMM I hand it to him.

I must be in non-competetiveville.... :twocents

May 24, 2009

obx you are my new fav. lol

Bottom line good fellas <snickers (v)>.... mmm sells by the name alone, anyone one of us that has at least some sense and experience knows... when you pull it outta the box and it's purple well.... how long is it gonna be before you get a warranty call on it. :thumb

TINT · May 24, 2009

obx you are my new fav. lol
Bottom line good fellas <snickers (v)>.... mmm sells by the name alone, anyone one of us that has at least some sense and experience knows... when you pull it outta the box and it's purple well.... how long is it gonna be before you get a warranty call on it.

mama knows best :bingo

November 18, 2009

Popular Science Magazine November 2009

Green Dream: Custom-Made Aluminum Windows Save Money and Energy

Plus: four more green windows and doors for retrofitting your own home

By John B. Carnett Posted 11.09.2009 at 10:21 am

Clearly Efficient John B. Carnett, PopSci’s staff photographer, is using the latest green technology to build his dream home. Follow his progress at popsci.com/greendream. Peter Bollinger

With the efficient pre-fab panels that make up the walls of my home, it’s vital that I don’t let all the heat—and my budget—escape out my 47 windows. So the fact that I had my heart set on sleek aluminum frames instead of wood or vinyl posed some challenges.

Residential aluminum windows tend to be inefficient because metal is far more conductive than wood, allowing significant heat loss, so they’re mostly used in warmer climates. Commercial models use thicker frames with a strip of insulating resin as a thermal break between the interior and exterior. But the extra materials and complicated design raise the price, and commercial makers aren’t set up for small residential orders. I got an astonishing quote of $137,000 for a mix of casement, fixed and slider models.

Then my architect found Tom Gordon, who runs a 16-person custom window-making shop in Rhode Island. Gordon has been designing an affordable, efficient residential aluminum model—the Biltite Evolution—for the past two years.

His frames use four insulating techniques: two types of plastic thermal breaks, air pockets to help prevent condensation and three panes of glass with argon trapped between them. Since these don’t need to be as robust as commercial windows, Gordon uses thinner-walled aluminum, which keeps the price down, and dealing directly with the manufacturer (Gordon) cuts out the standard distributor markup. My total bill is around $55,000.

A simulation of the window design run by an independent testing lab showed that it would be 50 percent more efficient than a vinyl window, with a U-value (a measure of how well it conducts heat) of 0.21, low enough to qualify for an energy tax credit.

The Specs

House: 3,500-square-foot, four-bedroom contemporary

Location: Greenwich, N.Y.

Project: Install energy-efficient aluminum windows

Cost: $55,000

Time to install: About a week

Eco-advantage: Less heat loss than standard aluminum or vinyl windows

What's Inside Biltite Evolution Windows?: Peter Bollinger

• GLASS Three panels separated by pockets of argon, a common window insulator, add up to 1.5-inch-thick panes, twice as thick as standard residential windows.

• THERMAL STRUTSPairs of ¾-inch strips made of a strong glass-fiber-reinforced plastic called polyamide bridge the interior and exterior aluminum frames to keep heat from traveling through the aluminum.

• THERMAL DEBRIDGINGTwo narrow channels in the interior frame are filled with urethane, which cures in place. Then the aluminum in the bottom of the channel is cut away, leaving a urethane bridge that’s less conductive.

• AIR POCKETS A type of weather-stripping known as a fin seal, made of a synthetic material called wool pile, lines the perimeter of the sash and creates air pockets that stop cool air from reaching the inside and causing condensation in the winter.

Already have a home?

Four More Green Windows and Doors

• Clean Caulk

Sealing air leaks with caulk is the easiest way to reduce energy costs—up to 20 percent on heating and cooling bills. And now you can do it without trapping noxious volatile organic compounds (VOCs), with Smart zero VOC rubberized caulk, the first made without headache-inducing chemicals. $2.39; gardner-gibson.com

• Eco-Door

Champion’s steel-and-fiberglass doors are the first to earn Green Seal certification, which evaluates a product’s manufacturing and life cycle. The company ensures that its materials have no lead or mercury, coats the door with low-VOC paint, and recycles its own scrap metal and water during production. From $1,500; championwindow.com

• UV-Free Window

Huper Optik’s Ceramic 30 window film deflects up to 70 percent of the sun’s heat, helping to cool the home while blocking nearly all ultraviolet rays, which can fade furniture. The film is embedded with NASA-developed titanium nitride beads that block UV and infrared light, but let visible light through. From $7 per square foot; huperoptikusa.com

• Greenest Glass

Soon your windows could double as solar panels. RSi’s 60-percent-transparent photovoltaic-embedded glass can produce about 36 watts from a typical three-by-four-foot window in direct sunlight and can be electronically frosted. It’s being tested on commercial buildings in California and could trickle down to homes as early as 2011. solar.tm

John B. Carnett, PopSci's staff photographer, is using the latest green technology to build his dream home. Follow along as the project progresses on his Green Dream blog: popsci.com/green-dream