WF Chat

[TomTint]

I have been thinking... ...

the price of tinting a car hardly increased in the past 10-20 years from where I am from

But rentals and overheads had probably doubled or tripled and window films keeps getting better, with longer longevity and better heat reduction.

We got more to tint cars in 1985-95 than many shops can get today. Locally prices are stagnant at best and that is due to the increase in shops offering tinting. Customer has choices and completion drives down margins. Simple supply and demand economics. Add the number of companies reboxing material today, who sell into the market for 10.00 less per roll than the next guy and Ray Charles can see why the industry is such a mess.

[Tintguy1980]

Dem were the glory days for sure. 

[FilmTack]

Add the number of companies reboxing material today, who sell into the market for 10.00 less per roll than the next guy and Ray Charles can see why the industry is such a mess.

Let's talk about it from a marketing perspective. We have so many good brands and many tints are almost perfect by now (99% UV Reduction, High Heat Reduction, Non Fading, etc). Our industry's distribution network and coverage have also became saturated and tint shops are now spoilt for choices.

15-20 years ago, tint shops could make good money by just by securing an exclusive dealership or franchise for their town and thereafter, retail revenue would come naturally.

Now, tint shops can easily access to affordable quality products with 7-10 years of durability. However, their selling prices stagnated in the past decade while non-tint-related expenses soared. Worst of all, words of mouth and good repute can no-longer generate respectable growth because of greater competition; tint shops are forced to spend more time and energy on commissions, advertising and promotions to deter competition.

If I may quote from Smarties, the glory (easy) days are over.

In the past 18 months, I had spent countless days discussing with two good US factories to do something different to avoid Tom's "$10-less" pricewar approach. Our industry is very dynamic and trust me, we know the grounds well after so many years in business AND AND AND hahaha, I am writing neater reports than my college days for these managers.

However, nothing fruitful emerged because people are afraid of risk and change.

[F1windowtinting]

Most window film is warranted against color change...not fading.

Try arguing that with a client with a warranty in question and see how it works out for you.

If tint goes clear it changed color right?

[Glass Tinting Supplies]

 

Add the number of companies reboxing material today, who sell into the market for 10.00 less per roll than the next guy and Ray Charles can see why the industry is such a mess.

Let's talk about it from a marketing perspective. We have so many good brands and many tints are almost perfect by now (99% UV Reduction, High Heat Reduction, Non Fading, etc). Our industry's distribution network and coverage have also became saturated and tint shops are now spoilt for choices.

15-20 years ago, tint shops could make good money by just by securing an exclusive dealership or franchise for their town and thereafter, retail revenue would come naturally.

Now, tint shops can easily access to affordable quality products with 7-10 years of durability. However, their selling prices stagnated in the past decade while non-tint-related expenses soared. Worst of all, words of mouth and good repute can no-longer generate respectable growth because of greater competition; tint shops are forced to spend more time and energy on commissions, advertising and promotions to deter competition.

If I may quote from Smarties, the glory (easy) days are over.

In the past 18 months, I had spent countless days discussing with two good US factories to do something different to avoid Tom's "$10-less" pricewar approach. Our industry is very dynamic and trust me, we know the grounds well after so many years in business AND AND AND hahaha, I am writing neater reports than my college days for these managers.

However, nothing fruitful emerged because people are afraid of risk and change.

 

There is no authority in place that has the power to police illegal tint jobs and poor workmanship. Anyone can pick up and go without being fully aware of the destruction they can leave behind.

 

We live in a time of a price focused consumer market that thinks short term gain, for long term pain. And cars these days, lets be honest, are disposable items. My experience is the same as you guys... The prices are lower now, then back in '97'. Almost 20 years have past and the prices have stayed the same or became lower. And I can't see that changing in the next decade either.

 

For a serious change to take place the installers, suppliers, manufacturers and relevant associations  will need to take action.

Will that happen? Not in my lifetime, and by the time a hang up the squeegee, car tinting will only be installed on the 'classics'. A dying profession. Might take 10 years, maybe 20... But it will come, and we will see the end of 'car tint shops' that specialize in tinting cars, to car shops that also tint cars.

 

I would like to see suppliers/manufacturers percentages of warranties lodged by installers.

e.g. Do Llumar have a higher percentage of installers correctly filling out warranty forms and keeping them on file?

 

I would bet that those that rebox films, and pop up over night suppliers would have a lower percentage of warranty claims because the tinters that use those films wouldn't be as concerned about submitting warranties... Hence the less a reboxed supplier would need to squirrel away for future claims. And so goes for the manufacturer that supplies the reboxers.

 

It's all about exclusivity. The rights to territory and ownership of brand. From manufacture to installation.

 

e.g. If an installer secures the rights to be a 3M installer in a territory, then if a consumer in that territory wants to get 3M, they get it from you at the price you desire. Once you have 2,3 or more 3M installers in 1 area, then the consumer can shop around to get the cheapest price. And the laziest tinters will drop their prices at the drop of a hat, because it is the easiest way and the only thing they can do that requires little effort to secure the work.

 

Even if all the tinters in the USA got together and agreed to not install illegal tints and not to undercut one another... It would be over in a week because you would have 100 more fly by the nighters flooding the market within that time looking for a quick buck at the industries expense. Even with the greatest effort to try and educate folks as they come into the industry, it is still a downhill slide... As for some folks, it just simply doesn't sink in.

 

I would never ever spend one minute training my children the skill or car tinting, simply because I don't think they would have a bright future.

 

Cheers.

[FilmTack]

 

There is no authority in place that has the power to police illegal tint jobs and poor workmanship. Anyone can pick up and go without being fully aware of the destruction they can leave behind.

 

We live in a time of a price focused consumer market that thinks short term gain, for long term pain. And cars these days, lets be honest, are disposable items. My experience is the same as you guys... The prices are lower now, then back in '97'. Almost 20 years have past and the prices have stayed the same or became lower. And I can't see that changing in the next decade either.

 

For a serious change to take place the installers, suppliers, manufacturers and relevant associations  will need to take action.

Will that happen? Not in my lifetime, and by the time a hang up the squeegee, car tinting will only be installed on the 'classics'. A dying profession. Might take 10 years, maybe 20... But it will come, and we will see the end of 'car tint shops' that specialize in tinting cars, to car shops that also tint cars.

 

I would like to see suppliers/manufacturers percentages of warranties lodged by installers.

e.g. Do Llumar have a higher percentage of installers correctly filling out warranty forms and keeping them on file?

 

I would bet that those that rebox films, and pop up over night suppliers would have a lower percentage of warranty claims because the tinters that use those films wouldn't be as concerned about submitting warranties... Hence the less a reboxed supplier would need to squirrel away for future claims. And so goes for the manufacturer that supplies the reboxers.

 

It's all about exclusivity. The rights to territory and ownership of brand. From manufacture to installation.

 

e.g. If an installer secures the rights to be a 3M installer in a territory, then if a consumer in that territory wants to get 3M, they get it from you at the price you desire. Once you have 2,3 or more 3M installers in 1 area, then the consumer can shop around to get the cheapest price. And the laziest tinters will drop their prices at the drop of a hat, because it is the easiest way and the only thing they can do that requires little effort to secure the work.

 

Even if all the tinters in the USA got together and agreed to not install illegal tints and not to undercut one another... It would be over in a week because you would have 100 more fly by the nighters flooding the market within that time looking for a quick buck at the industries expense. Even with the greatest effort to try and educate folks as they come into the industry, it is still a downhill slide... As for some folks, it just simply doesn't sink in.

 

I would never ever spend one minute training my children the skill or car tinting, simply because I don't think they would have a bright future.

 

Cheers.

 

Thanks for thoughts, GTS,

 

I think I last posted on TD about 2 years ago. Thereafter, if there's someone who's always on my mind when I read TD, 

it's probably you. 

Now, I am glad to have the chance to chat with you once again.   

 

[FilmTack]

Most window film is warranted against color change...not fading.

Try arguing that with a client with a warranty in question and see how it works out for you.

If tint goes clear it changed color right?

 

  Ten years ago, when several color stable films (no color change) were launched, I was confused and learnt things in a hard way that no-color-change does not equate to non-fading. There were two kinds of color stable films; some will still fade like conventional dyed films, and a few are technically almost non-fading (<3% difference in VLT after Xenon and QUV tests). 

[Glass Tinting Supplies]

 

There is no authority in place that has the power to police illegal tint jobs and poor workmanship. Anyone can pick up and go without being fully aware of the destruction they can leave behind.

 

We live in a time of a price focused consumer market that thinks short term gain, for long term pain. And cars these days, lets be honest, are disposable items. My experience is the same as you guys... The prices are lower now, then back in '97'. Almost 20 years have past and the prices have stayed the same or became lower. And I can't see that changing in the next decade either.

 

For a serious change to take place the installers, suppliers, manufacturers and relevant associations  will need to take action.

Will that happen? Not in my lifetime, and by the time a hang up the squeegee, car tinting will only be installed on the 'classics'. A dying profession. Might take 10 years, maybe 20... But it will come, and we will see the end of 'car tint shops' that specialize in tinting cars, to car shops that also tint cars.

 

I would like to see suppliers/manufacturers percentages of warranties lodged by installers.

e.g. Do Llumar have a higher percentage of installers correctly filling out warranty forms and keeping them on file?

 

I would bet that those that rebox films, and pop up over night suppliers would have a lower percentage of warranty claims because the tinters that use those films wouldn't be as concerned about submitting warranties... Hence the less a reboxed supplier would need to squirrel away for future claims. And so goes for the manufacturer that supplies the reboxers.

 

It's all about exclusivity. The rights to territory and ownership of brand. From manufacture to installation.

 

e.g. If an installer secures the rights to be a 3M installer in a territory, then if a consumer in that territory wants to get 3M, they get it from you at the price you desire. Once you have 2,3 or more 3M installers in 1 area, then the consumer can shop around to get the cheapest price. And the laziest tinters will drop their prices at the drop of a hat, because it is the easiest way and the only thing they can do that requires little effort to secure the work.

 

Even if all the tinters in the USA got together and agreed to not install illegal tints and not to undercut one another... It would be over in a week because you would have 100 more fly by the nighters flooding the market within that time looking for a quick buck at the industries expense. Even with the greatest effort to try and educate folks as they come into the industry, it is still a downhill slide... As for some folks, it just simply doesn't sink in.

 

I would never ever spend one minute training my children the skill or car tinting, simply because I don't think they would have a bright future.

 

Cheers.

 

Thanks for thoughts, GTS,

 

I think I last posted on TD about 2 years ago. Thereafter, if there's someone who's always on my mind when I read TD, 

it's probably you. 

Now, I am glad to have the chance to chat with you once again.   

 

 

Hi FilmTack,

 

It was 353 days ago when you last posted... But ay... Who's checking?

 

All you need to to do is to look at my previous posts and have an opened mind and a smiley face at the end of each post to see that I have no hate in my blood. I am one of few that have a strong passion for our industry and fight the daily fight to help make it a better industry to be a part of.

 

Some days are better than others... And if I have offended you in any way I humbly request your forgiveness.

 

You have been around longer in the window film industry than I have been alive, and with that I understand that you must believe as I that the clients you have that focus on longevity above price are your longest serving and most valued. I feel a responsibility to promote good practice in our industry and I can happily say that I practice what I preach.

 

I respect that you are here to have a chat about the industry as it is and not sharing links for sales and promotional info.

 

We here have much to learn from you, but you will only gain true respect here if you let go of what you want and show what you believe.

 

All the best Mr Poon.

[FilmTack]

hi GTS,

I am fine, don't worry about me, but really thanks for starting the chat. Don't get me wrong. When I said that you have been on my mind, it is not about any unhappiness, but just regrets.

From your posts, I came to feel that we have similar opinions on many matters when I read TD. During my absence from TD, I felt that it was regrettable that we didn't make friends from the beginning, so I am here to make peace with you and move on.

Product Longevity will never be an issue in our trade if all manufacturers and distributors are honest. I don't buy the excuse that climate distorts the longevity estimates because the products should be assessed based on tough climates like Australia or Arizona.

I may have misled you about my experience. My father founded the company 36 years ago, I certainly don't command 36 years of experience in the trade

In my whole career, I had only came across a handful of gentlemen like you who are more passionate than me about window films.

Smarties and You are certainly the ones. Just sharing....... I know another gentlemen from Japan who spoke to me like the way you post in TD. Like Smarties, he had been exposed to the harshest situations in sales and manufacturing of window films. Although he's young, the experience that he accumulated in a year is more than what I learnt in a decade.

So to me, you guys are like the future leaders in our trade.

I have left you a pm. Let me buy you a drink if you ever visit Singapore.