Installing frost with lettering

Bham · February 6, 2019

Okay, stupid beginner question but please help. I’m just now getting into doing more flat glass in offices and ran into an issue I don’t know how to do properly.

Tall entry door glass in frost with words cut out as a reveal. Issue is installing and keeping the floating part of the letters correct. I understand I can weed the letters and leave the floaters (centers of “O’s” - “e’s” - “B’s” etc). Problem is the floaters moving while installing such a big piece of film with lettering cut out in the middle.

Questions are are what is the best way to get this done without fighting the letters? Do I need to mask the lettering or do I need to cut a second set and weed it and install the floaters after installing the bigger piece? Or am I way off and need to go a different route?

Thanks for the help! This type of install is still new to me. I can do just letters or just a big piece of frost, but trying to get all the words to install correctly is not going well and I don’t want to spend a lot of time fighting this type of install.

Again, thanks. :thanks

Roach · February 6, 2019

What I normally do for something like that would be to have my sign guy cut the letters out and weed just that portion of the film. No need to mask the entire piece as it's over kill to the nth degree. lol That way the letters all stay put as it's installed.

If anything moves around, we just re-adjust whatever moved..

Bham · February 6, 2019

So @Roach - weed letters and just be careful when removing liner during backroll; or try not to backroll, and try to pull liner and install instead of backrolling?

I know that sounds stupid, but this is where the problem came in. If we pulled the whole liner, then the floaters in the letters are loose. If we leave liner and backroll, it is difficult not to tear the lettering and keep the floaters in place. ?? If that makes any sense ? :dunno

Edited February 7, 2019 by Bham

Roach · February 7, 2019

When I've done it it's always been two people.. so while one of us holds the film, the other removed the liner... Put it up and position it... Squeegee it down.. let it sit and do other windows. (When possible) Then go back.. wet the mask... Put it off... Check to make sure everything is good.

Usually works. [emoji106]

TomTint · February 7, 2019

We just print it 😜

WearTheFoxHat · February 7, 2019

Not sure what premask you are using.

One of the reasons the centers "float away " or get places they do not belong can be a combo of light tack premask or simply taking to long to lock them to the glass.

When they get wet they want to let go of the premask.

With "itty bittys" we will often would use a higher tack premask on a large panel with partial graphic like what you are describing.

If you are hesitant yes use 2 men for the install.

In any case be quick with targeting and lock down the cut area first taking care at the edges of the premask . ( the step to no premask can hold slip if you don't work perpendicular to the edges) then work above the cut area with wider and wider horizontal passes with hard card with the intention of keeping any slip above the cut area from getting down to the "logo" or text.

Our guys use the 6" Silver Lidco hard card for anything premasked then use any favorite 6" slip removal squeegee for the rest.

I should add that it takes some experience to learn how long to wait for premask removal afterwards.

Too much slip in your slip or too short a wait can result in pulling itty bittys away and losing them.

This can result in learning through necessity to hand cut by tracing replica itty bittys on the liner which hopefully is still clean and you have scraps.

Edited February 7, 2019 by WearTheFoxHat

Bham · February 19, 2019

So we went back and redid the door with lettering. Tried weeding the letters and using transfer tape this time. It went a little better, but had to fight the lettering bubbling while removing the transfer tape.

Question ? Do they make different levels of transfer tape? i.e. = different levels of tackiness(aggressiveness) with the tape adhesive. Will some release easier than others?

thanks. :thanks

Edited February 19, 2019 by Bham

WearTheFoxHat · February 19, 2019

@Bham

Bubbling happens most often when removing premask too early or a bit too much slip in your slip slowing the bond to the glass.

The wait for the film to bond to the glass better than the film to premask bond is the hardest part to learn. SOOOO glad for smart phones now!!!

When I would do a one off I'd often wait 10-15 or more mins before a test tug on the premask to see how its sticking.

3M has at multiple levels of tack in their premask offerings. SCPM -3 (low) SCPM -2(medium) and SCPM 53 (high) There is also SCPM 44x also a medium tack .

Bham · February 19, 2019

Just now, WearTheFoxHat said:

@Bham

Bubbling happens most often when removing premask too early or a bit too much slip in your slip slowing the bond to the glass.

The wait for the film to bond to the glass better than the film to premask bond is the hardest part to learn. SOOOO glad for smart phones now!!!

When I would do a one off I'd often wait 10-15 or more mins before a test tug on the premask to see how its sticking.

3M has at multiple levels of tack in their premask offerings. SCPM -3 (low) SCPM -2(medium) and SCPM 53 (high) There is also SCPM 44x also a medium tack .

Excellent information Foxy. Thank you. And yes.,, we should have just let the premask loosen more before trying to remove it. Also, part of the problem is the aggressiveness of the frost adhesive. It's not very aggressive and we were using masking that is used with vinyl lettering(too aggressive)

:thanks

Roach · February 19, 2019

4 hours ago, Bham said:

Do they make different levels of transfer tape?

As Fox said - yes... the guy at the sign shop I use doesn't use 3M.. but I asked about it and he said there are different levels you can get. He only gets one.. which I have no idea how much this stuff is so I'm not sure if he would order something else if it's for a smaller job. :dunno