Creation Science Seminar - part 4

[Guest darkdan]

Scriptural documentation of the oceans being shallow before the floor and deeper after the flood?

Because according to Gen 8:3, "The waters returned from off the earth...." Gen 8:13 "The waters were dried up from off the earth...."

So two passages in Genesis (which Moses wrote according to some) it came from off the earth and left the same way.

[Slick]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystrate_fossil

Both sides have reasonable explanations for both.

If you want to discuss the flood.

How are we to have derived so many different languages, cultures, religions, and people in the short time since the great flood and now (roughly 4,000 years) from Noah, his wife, his three sons, and his three son's wives?

Tower of Babel....Genesis chapter 11. In fact, you may find one book very interesting to read about that...alot about Nimrod and how it all came about. It's called The Two Babylons. Really goes in depth about that time and how it all came about. tough, deep read, but well worth it.

[Guest darkdan]

I get the whole tower of Babel thing with the languages.

But, was God really worried that tower would reach them? Isn't the world united for a common goal better than what we have now?

I don't recall, but did Babel change the color of their skins and have liked skin colored people settle in different areas of the world and within 1000 years (since some places have 3000+ years of recorded history) completely forget where they came from?

[Slick]

Like I said dan, read that book....I think it will explain alot to you.

[Slick]

“All men living today belong to a single species, Homo sapiens, and are derived from a common stock. . . . Biological differences between human beings are due to differences in hereditary constitution and to the influence of the environment on this genetic potential. In most cases, those differences are due to the interaction of these two sets of factors. . . . Differences between individuals within a race or within a population are often greater than the average differences between races or populations.”—An international body of scientists convened by UNESCO, quoted in Statement on Race (New York, 1972, third ed.), Ashley Montagu, pp. 149, 150.

“A race is simply one of the partially isolated gene pools into which the human species came to be divided during and following its early geographical spread. Roughly one race has developed on each of the five major continental areas of the earth. . . . Man did indeed diverge genetically during this phase of history and we can measure and study the results of this divergence in what remains today of the old geographical races. As we would expect, divergence appears to be correlated with the degree of isolation. . . . When race formation took place on the continents, with the bottlenecking of thousands of populations in isolated gene pools all over the world, the gene-frequency differences we now see were established. . . . The paradox which faces us is that each group of humans appears to be externally different yet underneath these differences there is fundamental similarity.” (Heredity and Human Life, New York, 1963, H. L. Carson, pp. 151, 154, 162, 163)

So, early in human history, when a group of people were isolated from others and married within the group, certain distinctive combinations of genetic traits were emphasized in their offspring.

[TintDude]

I get the whole tower of Babel thing with the languages.

But, was God really worried that tower would reach them? Isn't the world united for a common goal better than what we have now?

I don't recall, but did Babel change the color of their skins and have liked skin colored people settle in different areas of the world and within 1000 years (since some places have 3000+ years of recorded history) completely forget where they came from?

That's an easy one Dan. Compare a Great Dane to a Chihuahua, they are still both dogs, but through breeding the dominant and recessive genes get emphasized, the same thing happened after the separation at the tower of Babel.

[Guest darkdan]

Yes, but we can breed dogs!

We can't breed humans. Free will after all.

It's not an easy one. You have a very limited about of time (4000 years ~ 5000 years) to introduce a very large number of cultures and races with no previous knowledge of all being one in the same place and spread them throughout an entire planet with no proof they were all the same place.

Not to mention white people are considered a genetic adaptation to Europe (wide noses of black people help cool air, whites and other races have narrowing nostrils to help keep the air warm, Europe gets less sun so lighter skin developed since it didn't need as much protection).

So all that diversity, unrecorded, is expected in 80 generations? Not to mention the population growth from eight people to 6 billion!!!

[TintDude]

Yes, but we can breed dogs!

We can't breed humans. Free will after all.

We can't breed humans?

Seriously though, each section of people that separated had different gene sets and continued from there, no big mystery.

It's not an easy one. You have a very limited about of time (4000 years ~ 5000 years) to introduce a very large number of cultures and races with no previous knowledge of all being one in the same place and spread them throughout an entire planet with no proof they were all the same place.

Not to mention white people are considered a genetic adaptation to Europe (wide noses of black people help cool air, whites and other races have narrowing nostrils to help keep the air warm, Europe gets less sun so lighter skin developed since it didn't need as much protection).

So all that diversity, unrecorded, is expected in 80 generations? Not to mention the population growth from eight people to 6 billion!!!

I dunno, sounds plausible to me. Have you ever seen a serious rat plague, or the way rabbits can multiply? A few thousand years is all that's needed.

[Guest darkdan]

Yes, but we can breed dogs!

We can't breed humans. Free will after all.

We can't breed humans?

Seriously though, each section of people that separated had different gene sets and continued from there, no big mystery.

It's not an easy one. You have a very limited about of time (4000 years ~ 5000 years) to introduce a very large number of cultures and races with no previous knowledge of all being one in the same place and spread them throughout an entire planet with no proof they were all the same place.

Not to mention white people are considered a genetic adaptation to Europe (wide noses of black people help cool air, whites and other races have narrowing nostrils to help keep the air warm, Europe gets less sun so lighter skin developed since it didn't need as much protection).

So all that diversity, unrecorded, is expected in 80 generations? Not to mention the population growth from eight people to 6 billion!!!

I dunno, sounds plausible to me. Have you ever seen a serious rat plague, or the way rabbits can multiply? A few thousand years is all that's needed.

You can't breed humans without force. You cannot say, "Hey you, get her pregnant so we can pass on these specific genes." We can do that with animals.

Rats and rabbits would have many more generations compared to humans since Babel. A pair of rabbits can theoretically spawn 37782 rabbits in a year (11 additional generations a year). How many kids does a human couple produce in a lifetime? So your comparison of rats and rabbits is a fallacy.

You've already presented evidence for evolution. If we can take a type of dog and then breed both Great Danes and Chihuahuas (over a great period of time), then why is it so strange to think some hominid could become homo sapien.

[Slick]

Yes, but we can breed dogs!

We can't breed humans. Free will after all.

It's not an easy one. You have a very limited about of time (4000 years ~ 5000 years) to introduce a very large number of cultures and races with no previous knowledge of all being one in the same place and spread them throughout an entire planet with no proof they were all the same place.

Actually, if you research it, you will find proof that they all do originate from the same place...take the flood for example, research the numerous tribes and religions, and you will find a very similar story among all of them...again, I would suggest reading the book I mentioned earlier...The Two Babylons...aka The Papal Worship Proved To Be The Worship Of Nimrod And His Wife|

Not to mention white people are considered a genetic adaptation to Europe (wide noses of black people help cool air, whites and other races have narrowing nostrils to help keep the air warm, Europe gets less sun so lighter skin developed since it didn't need as much protection).

So all that diversity, unrecorded, is expected in 80 generations? Not to mention the population growth from eight people to 6 billion!!!

In the skin of all normal humans is a blackish brown pigment called melanin.

Noah and his three sons all had a measure of this dark pigment. From Shem came the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Jews and the Arabs who vary from fair to light-brown skin. The descendants of Japheth, who include the Indo-European races, vary from light skin to dark brown. As for Ham (meaning swarthy or sun-burnt), some, but not all, of his descendants had dark skin. The Egyptians, with light-brown skin, descended from Ham’s son Mizraim. Ham’s son Canaan, who was cursed by God because of bad conduct, was the forefather of the light-skinned Canaanites.

In agreement with this, Dr. Hughes, a professor of anthropology at the University of Toronto, said: “On every continent, and in every geographically defined race, there is a considerable range of variation in . . . skin pigmentation, . . . the Tamils of South India are considered by many anthropologists to be members of the Caucasoid [white Indo-European] major race, yet in skin pigmentation they are darker than many African Negroes.”

as far as 8 to 6 billion...you really dont think that is possible in 4000 years??? really dan???

here is what a bit more research dug up for me:

As population expands, it does not increase by simple consecutive addition (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.) but by exponential growth or multiplication (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, etc.).

Since humans began inhabiting the earth, population increased very slowly over a long period of time—until this century. For example, after 4,000 years of recorded human history in the Bible, the earth’s population grew to an estimated 300 million people by the time of Jesus Christ.

World population did not reach a billion until the early 1800’s. Now note how it escalates. By 1930, about a hundred years later, the population had doubled to 2 billion. Then, within 30 years, another billion was added to the population, reaching 3 billion in 1960. More alarmingly, by 1975, only 15 years later, the population had grown to 4 billion. And now the estimated world population stands at more than 6 billion.