ex 3M dealer still a fan

[Guest Retnitorp]

Howard,

I am not an employee of 3M, so I do not know that I should be the one addressing these issues. My understanding is that 3M does have a patent on the ultra technology and have the ability to produce this base polyester. I feel that I would be overstepping if I said any more than that. With your connections, I am sure that you can speak to someone directly at 3M to get your questions answered with regard to the particulars.

Hi Patric,

Thanks for your honest and candid answer. I thought some how you might know.

I have yet to come across anyone with these answers. I have written directly to 3M but to no avail.

I find it very noteworthy that every time I bring it up on these boards, not a single 3Mer chimes in and provides the answers. If this thread follows suit, it will just "go dead" without someone providing the location of the PET plant (those are kind of hard to hide) and the patent number for the Ultra film.

-Howard

Howard,

It is my understanding that 3M is one of the top 5 manufactures of PET in the world and there is not just one PET plant, V4V has already told you where one of them is located in a previous thread, the same plant that manufactures the Ultra film, BTW the ultra film does Not have hundreds of layers you must have been thinking of the PR film.

Yes there is a patent for the Ultra film, i have seen it on the Internet a few times, if all you are interested in is how it is made, i am sure mike "V4V " can explain that to you.

[Guest Retnitorp]

I think you could hear a pin drop in a room full of the MMM ers when they get cornered with questions like that...... Now why is that ?

[davlisgen]

Patent or no patent, ULTRA 4mil is superior to any other 4mil

[EWF]

To All,

I have again written to 3M for clarification.

I have learned that the multiple layers in their products are not laminated layers. The layering is done during the extrusion phase of the PET film production. For those of us that are more "tech minded" you will note that PET films used in our industry are actually BoPET films (bi-axially oriented) so there is some degree of "multi-layer extrusion" in all window films. It is precisely this attribute that causes the undesirable "rainbow" effect which can be seen at night and in the presence of fluorescent light.

You will note that I never disparaged their product or accused them unscrupulous business practices. I have a great deal of respect for them and all the other giants I have to compete with every workday. I ask only for a level playing field.

For what it's worth:

We had our 8Mil certified in the same lab that 3M did (HTL of Florida). Although both of our products passed the same battery of tests, I believe that our submission deserves special consideration because of two facts: #1 - We tested on a larger window than 3M (and every other manufacturer did) and the increased surface area made for a greater wind load. #2 - We used a stock production window rather than a unit that was constructed specifically for the test, which I believe better simulates real world conditions.

Notwithstanding their claims that the Ultra 400 is equivalent in strength to an 8 Mil, note that 3M did not (to the best of my knowledge) get their Ultra 400 certified for the Miami Dade County Small Missile test. As far as I know, no manufacturer has been able to obtain that certification with anything less than an 8 mil window film.

One thing is for sure: All of our films are a great deal less expensive.

-Howard

[Guest filmslayer]

One thing is for sure: All of our films are a great deal less expensive.

-Howard

Howard = master of under statement ...

[V4V]

Patent or no patent, ULTRA 4mil is superior to any other 4mil

It's much hazier and does not meet the same level of security as 8 ML films based on cycling and impact testing. LLumar 4 ml has also met the ANSI 400 Ft lbs for safety.

Bottom line; it's more expensive for less clarity and less safety.

But. .believe what you want.