Quoting Film Specs

[Aesop_Rock]

Hi All,

Just wondering when everyone is quoting specs to a customer for various types of film do you just use TSER or do you tell them about IR Rejection as well?

 

I ask this because I was over at my buddies shop and he was quoting the TSER of different tint to a customer. After he was done I asked why he didn't tell them about his films IR Rejection specs and he said that they are not listed. So when he has to compare the film he  uses (which is two different companies) He can only go by TSER.

 

I carry only one brand of film and it has the usual specs Including IR Rejection (which is 97% on our high end film). So do I have an advantage to close a deal because IR is listed even though it is rolled into the overall TSER %. So I guess what I am asking is, Is IR Rejection a hugely influential factor when quoting tint specs? Confused in Norcal.

[whitehog]

Hello @Aesop_Rock,

 

It really depends on who you ask when getting an answer for this. In all actuality, the IRR is represented in everyone's TSER. TSER is Total Solar Energy Rejected, in which Solar Energy is comprised of the Visible light, InfraRed, and UV. When one is touting just the IR% it could be a total misrepresentation of the facts. (I have heard salesman saying that their film has 97% IR and blocks out 97% of the heat.

 

So let me ask you a question? Your film blocks 97% IR and has a TSER of 57%. Your competitor has a film that is 88% IR and has a TSER of 65%. Whose film blocks out more heat?

 

Honestly, this argument will happen until the cows come home. There are some film companies that say TSER goes out the window when you are dealing with automotive film. And it has been argued on this forum with no clear winner, except I would say that the edge goes to those that say TSER is the true spec.

[Aesop_Rock]

@whitehog Thanks a ton for your reply. I definitely get what you are saying. But at the same time what does VLT, UV , or Glare reduction matter when you are talking about heat rejection. IR is the heat that you feel. 

 

I quote TSER all day long and mainly people just want to hear about heat rejection.

 

Further more with the film we carry the only spec that changes from 20% to 70% is glare reduction. So that's really the only thing that impacts the TSER %. Glare reduction is that big of a factor for calculating TSER?

[whitehog]

what film are you carrying? Because if the only spec that changes between the 20% & 70% is GR I really question the specs you are provided.

[Aesop_Rock]

3M Crystalline

 

 

[whitehog]

Thank you for sharing @Aesop_Rock.

 

Crystalline is a very good film. MMM is only providing a bare minimum of specs for you to look at. There are many other specs that affect the performance of a window film. You have TSEa, TSEt, TSEr, SHGC, SC, VLR......... All of these factor into the films performance. If this is all that you have to go by I can see why you think that GR is what affects the change in TSER. Films do 1 of 3 things...they either Absorb(TSEa), Reject(TSEr) or Transmit(TSEt) Solar Energy. You are correct in that IR is the sensation from the sun that we feel, but it is not what wholly makes up Solar Energy(Heat). Even in the representation MMM shows above, they are Highlighting TSER, because that is what is the most important spec. If they felt that IR was the most important spec, you can rest assured with a 97% IR rating they would be highlighting that instead of the TSER.

I am not trying to convince you one way or the other, I am just trying to offer you a little insight into window film from the manny side.

[Aesop_Rock]

No I understand. Just trying to un confuse myself.

[DynamicATL]

Honestly we do not mention TSER or IR.  We walk them through each film letting them know what each film does/doesn't do along with letting them know which performs well with heat rejection.  We then use the heat lamps to let them feel the difference.  I feel throwing too many numbers at them are confusing and they are not going to get it.  How are you going to make a customer understand the numbers when we as professional on here argue about it all the time?  It works great for us...50% of our jobs are Llumar CTX Ceramic, 20% is 3M Crystalline, and the rest making up the 30%.

[Aesop_Rock]

Love the heat lamp demos!!

 

[Naples Tint Company]

TSER is important. IRR is only part of the picture. I installed a film that blocks more IR than crystalline on half of my windshield. I measured the dash temperature every 10 minutes. Although almost the entire IR was blocked, the tinted side still hit 142 degrees after an hour. The clear side hit 160 degrees. Most of this heat gain was caused by visible light. However, the story for the customer is to expect the heat gain to be reduced by 15 degrees with a relatively clear film.

 

97% IR sounds nice, but have you ever tried to test and prove that number? Its actually 84%, which is high but proof that the auto window film industry needs regulation and/or common test methods.