Laser Labs Modifying meters for japanese glass. . .

Go2Guy · January 16, 2018

So I just placed my first order with Laser Labs and just got off the phone with them, I was speaking with some one and we were just casually talking about tint when she brought something up that i have never heard of before.

She said that they have to modify the meters for the japanese market because japan has "green" auto glass and the meters dont meter right with out then changing out the type of the led to a white led. . . I asked her can she send me info on this because as most tinters know the glass on these new cars are getting darker and darker, right down to the the federal 70 percent mark. and the hue chosen for the darkness is more often then not GREEN. I informed her this and she responds well japan has different glass and they dont ship japanese cars with japanese glass to the states, I replied well its quite ironic how japanese toyotas like the corollas and camry have green glass just as she is describing even the newer impalas have this look. . she responds well its proprietary information and so i can't send you any info. . . she was very nice, but at the this point seemed a little nervous as she likley was talking about something that she shouldnt have, however too late as my curiosity had just been arousen \

so the million dollar question : she just inadvertently admitted that the meters on the us market are not accurate with green glass which is slowly become the standard for newer cars, does anybody have any info on this. it seems like with the right documentation this would be a good way to get out of a ticket. but at the same time there are millions of meters on the market already and deeming then all inaccurate for modern dark green glass would be a bit controversial . . I'd love to your opinion on this or if any one has any info on this especially @smartie2shoes

Edited January 16, 2018 by Go2Guy

Go2Guy · January 16, 2018

Well I just did a little bit of digging and found this. . . . this on there website

""

Quote

"Tint Meters measure at a wavelength of 550 nanometers that corresponds to the color green. 550nm was chosen as it is the center of the human eyes sensitivity and is the universal wavelength for optics measurement."

http://www.laser-labs.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Online-Training-course-mobile-1.pdf

She advised that they had to change the led to white, so i guess the question is what is the affect of using a green led to measure vlt on green glass.
this would be a scientific question having to do with light absorption. . I know black absorbs all light , white reflects all light, but not sure the relation of a colored light shing on a colored glass, would be the light would be reflected back at a higher percentage OR would the green light be absorbed by the green glass resulting in a lower vlt. . it would take a genius to answer this. . . lol

Any takers?

Edited January 16, 2018 by Go2Guy

CustomGlassTinter · January 16, 2018

Works just the opposite, actually. The green glass filters out the rest(not totally) of the spectrum and transmits green. Perhaps a 35% green glass would actually meter a bit higher as the green isn't being filtered out.

tintmeter · January 20, 2018

From time to time we make custom meters for customers.(Each original iPhone 1 display cover glass was tested on our equipment, and still to this day) The "White LED" meters were a custom application for a single client in Japan. They had a car manufacturer trying a new glass with custom additives which create a spectral response unlike any glass previously made. The manufacturer decided that the added cost was not justified so they cancelled the project. All meters shipped worldwide use the same green Led. Hope this helps.

If anyone wishes to discuss this more, email me at Ed@laser-Labs.com

(Can't believe iI've been designing Tint Meters for almost 30 years! Getting old!)

Ed Marcin

CEO

Laser Labs

Go2Guy · January 20, 2018

WOW. .. . I would have never expected the CEO of laser labs to reply to me . . . .lol. . . I hope i didn't get any one in trouble as the lady was extremely nice, but the more i inquired the about "the green glass" the more awkward the conversation got, so my question for you ed, is there any effect of a green led being used on green glass? My logic in my mind indicates yes, but I dont have the knowledge to back that up. . Either way thanks for the reply , I have one other questions as well. Are these meters accurate for measuring tint alone with out glass, I tried several time but kept getting an E1 error, it seem i probably should have got the 2 piece meter because its near impossible to press the lever and slide a piece a film in there with out geting an E1 error, My reason for doing this is the as we mentioned earlier the factory glass is getting darker and darker to the 70 percent level and as it does we have to compensate what tint we put on the car for the darkness of the glass.. thanks for the replie

DynamicATL · January 20, 2018

I can add on the two piece meter, it works fine for metering just the film. We do it all the time to compare roll to roll and generally it meters the same unless an issue with the film.

tintmeter · January 20, 2018

No one will get in trouble!

The difference in reading between green and white LED's is very small, within the margin of error. Thats why meters are spec'ed at +_2%. Remember also that White LED's are made using blue and yellow orange led chips(depends on LED. Think of the LED bulbs for your house, warm white, cool white etc. with all sorts of varying spectral outputs. The green color of the LED, when chosen properly, is 550nm and is a physical constant of the material used to make the LED)The reason for green goes why back to the 80's when it was in some states laws. It allows you to contest the meter reading in court and use any readily available spectrophotometer to take a comparison measurement(labs, university etc all have lots of them.) Years ago early meters used an incandescent bulb(actually a tail light bulb) as the source. Trouble with bulbs is they produce light by heating a filament to glow white and produce tremendous amounts of infrared light(which you can't see) and a small amount of UV. Even with filters there still is significant IR and some UV(which is invisible) which then would be blocked by the car window/tint film giving a lower reading. Wouldn't be fair to ticket someone for light you can't even see. 550 is the middle of the human eye sensitivity and is the measurement that the optics industry has used for years. The heat absorbers used in car windows do give it a slight green cast but again it just cause a slight high reading compared to white, once again within the +_2%. The bigger issue we have found is the spot to spot variability in both auto glass and even worse some tint film. Glass makers goal is to keep spot to spot variation under 3%(the threshold of human perception) for the most part they do a very good job, sadly that can't be said for some film manufacturers. I have seen film with greater than 8% spot to spot variation within 12" on the same piece of film. Doesn't make your job any easier when you buy poor quality film.

As for using the one piece Enforcer II to measure film, thats tough to do. if you look at the this GIF Laser-Labs-Tint-Meter-Enforcer-II-CPU-01 you can see the on/off switch at the bottom of the slot. You need to hold the film tightly between your two hands and with your third hand slide the film in to depress the switch and keep it depressed till you break the beam. Doable but tough. Other wise it will calibrate with the film inplace and read 100 or if the film is dark the meter will know something is screwed up and throw an E1 error reading.