whers ralph

Ryker · November 20, 2014

Low carb solution?
What's next Paleo solution?

Hi Sisqouc,

We were discussing the "ideal" mounting solution which I opined would be a pure surfactant and he raised a point I had never even considered; which was whether a Polyethylene Glycol (PEG) & water mounting solution could promote bacterial growth in a spray bottle.

EWF encourages good "sprayer hygiene" and suggests that the bottles be cleaned out every single day in the interest of clean work. But Ralph may have had a point. I have not had time to research it, but I do intend to.

-Howard

I know I had issues with slip tack getting funky really quick on me and even the concentrate bottle got to smelling funny without any water added. I don't have that issue with Film-on at all....never have and go for days with the same sprayer sometimes in this season.

Not saying anything bad about anything but my observation that might prove "bacterial growth in a spray bottle"

EWF · November 20, 2014

I know I had issues with slip tack getting funky really quick on me

Hi Ryker,

Yep...

That was due to the mold that was present in one 55 Gal Drum of Cedpal we got from the vendor back in 2010. We were not the only company impacted by that. It is used in several other brands of mounting solution.

But I have not heard any more about it in the last few years. It was just terrible. It made the spray tanks smell like blue cheese.

-Howard

shwusyrtnts · November 20, 2014

Ryker. What was the slip?

When I use J&J shampoo it'll get funky after a warm day. Joy does not.

EWF · November 20, 2014

When I use J&J shampoo it'll get funky after a warm day. Joy does not.

Hi Shwusyrtints,

That was Ralph's point. The dish soaps & cosmetic products have a pH that may arrest the bacterial growth. Still, if you make a habit of cleaning the bottle, mold should not be a problem no matter what slip you prefer.

-Howard

shwusyrtnts · November 20, 2014

I usually go thru 3-5 poly's a day. But at the end of the day I do not rinse out and re fill the next day, just use it but it's only 12 hours old. So how long is to long to let it sit?

I need to get some film on Ryker swears by it.

EWF · November 20, 2014

I need to get some film on Ryker swears by it.

EWF sells Film-On. It's been in the industry for decades and it's endorsed by King Llumar.

There is no patent on Film-On. Our Slip-Tack should be the identical formulation.

-Howard

Ocala · November 21, 2014

When I use J&J shampoo it'll get funky after a warm day. Joy does not.

Hi Shwusyrtints,

That was Ralph's point. The dish soaps & cosmetic products have a pH that may arrest the bacterial growth. Still, if you make a habit of cleaning the bottle, mold should not be a problem no matter what slip you prefer.

-Howard

"May arrest bacterial growth"

Back in 2008 I had a nasty table saw accident and cut 2 fingers off from my right hand. One of the spray bottles I was using at the time sat on a shelf untouched for 4 months collecting dust untill I returned back to work. I didn't try using the solution that was in there, but there wasn't a hint of bacteria or mold inside that bottle.

rvpjr · November 21, 2014

shwsuyrtnts,

I hate that I "blew you off". That was not my intention. Was I at church? Was I taking a shower? I admit that I am extremely accessible, but the only time I might be short with someone is usually when I am in the shower or at church. My wife gets really mad a me when I start texting during the sermon. Please let me know when I can get in touch with you. I will call and you will not be able to get rid of me. Ask Howard,.. I got kicked out of the Global booth at SEMA because I talk too much. lol.

Ryker · November 21, 2014

James it was slip tack. There was a thread if I remember correctly. I have only every had one bottle of film on that was very odd. 44 tools replaced it and I have loved all since.

rvpjr · November 21, 2014

I have been working with a gentleman who is smarter than me when it comes to chemicals. I have been in the process of developing a slip solution with him for the last 8 months. In reference to mold, mildew, bacteria, and algae growth in your solutions, I know some cool facts. Baby shampoo has a pH of 6.5. This pH level is what human skin is on the average. This is why this product does so well with babies. A pH between 6 and 8 is ideal for the growth of mold, mildew, bacteria, and algae especially if there is a food source and the right temperature. Glycerin is the food source found in baby shampoo that makes our film slip so well. Glycerin also happens to be a non petroleum based solvent (sugar).

Usually we mix our solution and everything is great the first day. The next day things start to change... we wonder if we put enough baby shampoo in our bottles because it doesn't feel like there is any shampoo in the bottle. What do we do? We add some more. What is happening? The pH level starts to change because foreign bodies begin to grow. We notice that there is a slimy coating that coats our spray bottles. We later notice that chunks of stuff starts to shoot out of our bottle and get under the film. We also notice that our film starts to pre tac to the glass and it becomes easier to crease and sometimes even small air bubbles begin to get trapped under the tint in the glue.

How do we solve this problem? We have changed the surfactants to be similar to original baby shampoo formula before they change it to the improved formula. (that is a long story) We increased the pH to 9.2 because you can almost eliminate growth at this range without adding preservatives. We took out the ammonia based surfactant so you could add a very small amount of bleach in large containers to control growth in extreme conditions. In the baby shampoo this will not work because the ammonia will react with the bleach and create fumes that will make you sick and compromise the installation. We also have formulated the solution to work with hard and soft water conditions. I do not know how my chemical guy did this but I do know it will handle conditions when there is 45 parts per million calcium in the water. If calcium is higher, we will have a special version that will work with that as well.

There are some other solutions on the market that have made steps in the right direction; However, there are some issues with them as well. Some of them simply do not have ingredients that we need for the film to slip. When tinters complain that the solution does not have enough slip, they add more solution. This never solves the problem because there is not an ingredient necessary for the film to slip properly.

At the end of the day, all we are trying to do is utilize certain surfactants in our solution with the proper pH so we can lower the surface tension and create a window of time to position and secure the film on the glass and remove the solution and air bubbles from the film. Once we remove the solution and the air bubbles, we then need to raise the surface tension to lock our film so that the curing process can take place without compromising our adhesive on the film and causing premature failure. Thank you.