Understanding ceramic film performance

[Tintguy1980]

I agree with you.

I have however tested the whole heat lamp vs normal full light flood lamp side by side and could only feel a very negligible difference if any at all.

You also must keep in mind that the visible light isn't necessarily causing any discomfort to the vehicle occupant.

At least not heat. ( yes I realize that light accounts for energy but energy and heat aren't exactly the same.)

IR in specific is the part of the solar spectrum that your body actually registers most easily as heat.

Imo if you reduce the ir you increase the comfort.

Let's get something straight... all Electromagnetic Radiation (visible, NIR & UV) from the sun converts to 'heat' (we sense) through thermal kinetic energy as it is absorbed and excites on the molecular level. What re-radiates off surfaces is far infrared (FIR).

 

Visible and UV light account for more than half the energy the sun produces. The only reason NIR (near infrared, less than half the sun's EMR) is felt in the immediate is because it's longer wavelengths penetrate deep beyond the skin, striking nerve endings that shorter wavelengths of visible and UV cannot reach. Also, water is a strong absorber of NIR and the human body is 98% water.

 

If you want to keep your car cooler you need a effective against all three, Visible, NIR and UV. If you want the illusion of feeling cooler, an IR film will give you that. Rather than demo'ing to the public using infrared bulbs, try showing them the difference using an infrared camera and take pictures of the surface the sun strikes behind films' being compared. In the end though, you really will only see a 5-10 degree temp reduction whether it's an IR film, a dye/metal film or an all metal film having the same VLT.

 

That would be why Total Solar Energy Rejected is 'the' number to be concerned with as a consumer (purchaser) of window films. Never mind the flashy demonstrations and sales-speak, just ask what the TSER is and decide based on that and installation skills.

[Ocala]

 

I agree with you.

I have however tested the whole heat lamp vs normal full light flood lamp side by side and could only feel a very negligible difference if any at all.

You also must keep in mind that the visible light isn't necessarily causing any discomfort to the vehicle occupant.

At least not heat. ( yes I realize that light accounts for energy but energy and heat aren't exactly the same.)

IR in specific is the part of the solar spectrum that your body actually registers most easily as heat.

Imo if you reduce the ir you increase the comfort.

 the human body is 98% water.

 

 

 

I think my body is 98% rum!       I know its not part of the topic but couldn't resist. 

[Tintguy1980]

 

 

I agree with you.

I have however tested the whole heat lamp vs normal full light flood lamp side by side and could only feel a very negligible difference if any at all.

You also must keep in mind that the visible light isn't necessarily causing any discomfort to the vehicle occupant.

At least not heat. ( yes I realize that light accounts for energy but energy and heat aren't exactly the same.)

IR in specific is the part of the solar spectrum that your body actually registers most easily as heat.

Imo if you reduce the ir you increase the comfort.

 the human body is 98% water.

 

 

 

I think my body is 98% rum!       I know its not part of the topic but couldn't resist. 

 

 

[AJD]

Wouldn't a ceramic film work better since the heat from a human body is a form of IR heat? Heat that we can feel but not see. 

 

Heat from the body is Far Infrared - what you really need here is a low-e film to reflect that heat right back at her

[Ocala]

Haha. Cheaper to smother her up with a blanket. Lol

[Tintguy1980]

 

Wouldn't a ceramic film work better since the heat from a human body is a form of IR heat? Heat that we can feel but not see. 

 

Heat from the body is Far Infrared - what you really need here is a low-e film to reflect that heat right back at her

 

Ha... I attached to sheets of Enerlogic with lowE surfaces opposing each other to the trap door to the attic. Summer and winter protection.   

[Ocala]

Far infrared is still too near my azz when laying next to her. Lol

[rvpjr]

Here is an old video I made that seems appropriate for this thread.  I would change many things on this video because I made it a while back but overall it is pretty good.  There is always a debate that the heat lamp demonstration is misleading because it does not represent "real world".  I agree.  We do not try to make customers believe that the heat box experience is real world.  We are just trying to show how much IR our product absorbs against the competition who claims their product is better.

There is no need to demonstrate how visible light manages heat because our film is equal to the other guys film in that respect because they are going to have the same VLT.   There is also no need to demonstrate how much UV our film blocks because it is the same as everyone else at 99.9%.  We just need to get to the point of IR absorption to show that our product beats the competition to nail down the sale. If anyone tries to compare the heat box to real world, they are misleading the customer with that approach.  If everyone would be on the same page with this demonstration, there would be no debate. I AGREE that the film with the highest TSER would be the best.  The debate is do you want a dark mirror film on your car?  Would it be legal?  Would it be marketable?  Try to sell a film that makes your car look like a NASA satellite to you next Mercedes customer and see if you are successful. 

 

[Guest bbvaldezjuly4th]

Wow guys. I see a few misconceptions here.

I'm not here to get into an I know more type of discussion however with this particular post I think I need to clarify a few things.

First off we are talking about automotive films here. If we were talking about flat glass I would be inclined to agree in part or in total with many of the statements already made here.

What is it that an automotive film customer wants? COMFORT. ( and yes good looks, privacy etc .) those things have already been established.

More to the point.

Why are we as installers trying to sell higher IR films ? Because higher IR films give you more comfort in DIRECT sunlight .

The statement made that there is little difference between a low IR ( dyed film ) and a high IR rejection film ( ceramic ) is absolutely absurd. ( and I sincerely hope their isn't actually tint shops that would imply a child would be safe in a car longer because of the film) ( even aluminum foil over the windows would not prevent absorption and in turn convection)

If you have a film that reduces 11% of IR ( which happens to match virtually every dyed only film on the planet btw) and you have another film ( of the same vlt) that reduces let's say. 80% of the entire IR spectrum, then which one is better and has the higher TSER ? Bingo! the one with higher IR rejection! To break that down . IR is responsible for just over 50% of total heat.

So a film with a 10% IR rejection rate would reduce roughly only 5% of TOTAL HEAT striking a surface after passing through the glass. ( we are only accounting for IR here , not visible or uv )

However a film that reduces 80% of IR is reducing over 40% of TOTAL HEAT striking a surface pass the glass .

That is a difference of 35%!

Now I'm sorry but feeling a reduction that high is a HUGE and EASILY noticeable difference!

Now. If we are gonna debate over if the IR film makes a dramatic difference in temperature in a car then yes I will agree that that would be negligible but only under a few unfavorable circumstances.

For example if the two films were on two identical cars with the windows rolled up just sitting in the sun, then within a short period of time the temps in each car would most likely only be within a few degrees of each other.

However if both car windows were cracked just a bit, the high IR film car would be SUBSTANTIALLY COOLER .

Nonetheless these comparisons are a mute point when comparing automotive application.

The best automotive film would be the best flat glass film IF IT WASNT ILLEGAL TO HAVE HIGH REFLECTIVE FILM ON A CAR.

The most ideal and best performing film would be a 5% dual reflective silver film on ANY GLASS . This film would have a TSER well over. 70%, but alas that film is not legal on a car.

Long story short is that when it comes to flat glass applications, TSER IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE KING .

But when it comes to automotive , IR IS KING.

And about the heat box being deceptive or tricky or false or bogus or whatever you want to call it.

If you are comparing strictly automotive films, then this is a very accurate portrayal of the benefits of the films .

Because the stated benefits are indeed the COMFORTING IR REDUCTION of said film.

Now if we were comparing FLAT GLASS FILMS using mainly IR then that could indeed be very misleading due to high and low reflectivity of different films.

You must keep in mind that the reasons and ways that we sell flat glass films are quite different from how we should approach automotive sales . Two different beasts.

For example if a customer says: I want the film that is gonna reduce the most energy and drop my cooling bill down the most but still allow me great light and visability.

Well I would offer them Huper Drei or 3m Prestige/Crystalline. And if they said they just wanted the best period, 5% silver dual reflective.

Same with a car. ( excluding reflective films such as drei or crystalline)

And only including charcoal/black automotive specific films.

Then I would recommend a film with a very high IR rejection.

( yes I realize drei and crystalline are both options)

Long story short is that IR comparisons are only deceptive if the person selling the films make it deceptive by not being honest or by simply not truly understanding what IR and TSER truly means based on a specific application.

Y'all have fun and I am glad to be meeting each of you!

Always remember we can always learn!

If you use IR and a heat lamp in your sales approach, good for you! But just be an honest and knowledgable salesman! Don't be a crook!

And if you are selling flat glass film based on TSER , good for you! Stay honest and knowledgable my friends! :-)

[jh812]

Good Lord.