DynamicATL

2 hours ago, Dano said:

I saw some crazy stuff when I was preloading dealership inventory.

 

Just last week a new $80k Mega Cab came in that looked like the whole left side had been repaired. Definitely not 'factory' alignment on the sheet metal. Less than 100mi on it and just delivered to the lot a few days prior. I was told by a transport shipper that it doesn't count as damage as long as it's still in the manufacturers custody.

Wow! Teslas often have dents on the rear doors that is caused by whatever machine they use for the lifting them. We know a guy that does paintless dent repair and half of his work is fixing just that.

I agree with @TNTLady about both. Your glass has a ceramic border around it. If the film is all the way past the border, then technically it is fine since no light is shining through and the gap can't be seen from the outside. Now, would that bother me seeing half of it is tucked behind the panel and other half is not, absolutely. So I would ask them to see if they can redo it going behind the panel. I would if it was my vehicle. Is it being picky? Yes. The other photo is definitely not a burn mark, something was pushed into the panel caused that. This could of been caused by the tinter but it also could have been there previously. I would ask them about it and see if they took any photos of it before starting on the vehicle. We walk all vehicles doing this because there is always more damage than the customer realizes. Anytime people buy new cars, they feel they are perfect or should be but generally that is not the case. Before you ever signed a line, that car has been moved around the country, loaded/unloaded from trucks, employees jumping in and out. So most new cars will have minor issues by the time they arrive at the dealership. Teslas are notorious for this, I've seen a new Infiniti Q50 with less than 10 miles on it with scratches all over, I even saw a $500k Ferrari with burn marks inside the headlight without ever seeing a mile on the road. The tinter will most likely say they didn't cause the damage and they could be 100% correct or 100% wrong. No way to know for sure.

Yes, Crystalline is designed to redirect most of the heat away from the glass. So it will stay cooler when the vehicle is not in motion when compared to a Ceramic film that absorbs all the heat. Especially these multiple layer Ceramics like F1 Stratos. 3M color is all over the place but their Ceramic IR is pretty neutral which people love. I would say Crystalline has more LAH especially during the drying period that takes longer than other films.

For every 10 vehicles we tint, we do full windshields on 6 of them. Out of all the years of tinting them, only 1 customer came back to ask about it. He did wear polarized glasses, so we explained the whole filtering wavelengths and he was good. We do not explain anything to customers about it prior to the installation. Personally, I wear a few pairs of Maui Jim sunglasses with no issue with the windshield. Same with my Costa Del Mars and Ray-Bans sunglasses. Some people are just going to notice things more than others. I've a couple of people hate the LAH on 3M Crystalline which doesn't bother me. I also had a customer freak the fu*k out about 3M Color Stable having a blue hue...they acted like it is solid blue.

4 minutes ago, JBent said:

What's your setup? Considering 15% to maintain privacy and get some vision back.

Legal which is 35% in my state, I gave up going darker after about 12 tickets. I do tint the windshield to help give it an overall slightly darker look but not a huge difference. 15% will probably work for you, anything lighter than that won't offer much privacy.

5 hours ago, JBent said:

This is what I see right now.

Yes, reflection of your interior. Once again, your stock glass without window tint also has this reflection, just not as noticeable. It is completely normal and will be like that on all films. The darker you go, the more noticeable it becomes. You can go lighter to reduce it slightly or remove the tint all together.

It is the reflection of your interior on the dark surface. Your stock glass also has this reflection, it is just not as noticeable since it is lighter/clearer. As you darken the window, this increases the amount you see. Your inability to see out is not just the reflection, it is the 5% darkness. I would suggest redoing it in 15% which still offers good privacy but will have much better clarity when compared to the 5%. Keep in mind, there will still be some reflection, just not as bad.

19 hours ago, Gav777 said:

I think ultimately it will be both cases. My issue is can I trust the tinter to remove the tint without damaging the heat lines? He seems pretty confident that he can, but I've been burnt so many times now I don't really trust anyone 

It is impossible to know, defrost lines can come off with any removal. Some are poorly attached, so they may look good to go but come right off. Doing the black bag removal method will be your best chance. To this day, we have never lost defrosters on a removal but we explain to all customers that it is possible.

It could be weld marks, it could contamination, or a combination of both. If the tinter is willing to retint it, I would give them a shot since it won't cost you anything. If the glass does have weld marks or if the defrosters come off during removal, just get a brand new glass. I would call around to different glass installers, prices can vary greatly. I would try a different tint shop though. If the glass was that bad, the tinter should have noticed that and never tinted it. Not to mention you stated how dirty the place is which is the absolute opposite you want in a tint shop.

On 9/23/2022 at 6:42 PM, no ma'am said:

Been awhile, still got it. 

We all cringe when a C6 makes its way on the schedule but still my favorite Vette. A friend/neighbor has a C6 ZR1 in Blue Devil that I stare at every time I see it.

@Dano Not at all, the "you" at the end was not directed toward you, just meant generally, I apologize for that. I fully understand your position. I've offered only a few refunds after full removal is done, never a 50% refund. I was just thinking of one customer we experienced that we decided we were not going to touch their vehicle. We had a feeling he would try to claim we damaged the vehicle somehow. So the 50% idea came to me while I was responding.

@Dano I suggested that only if he did not feel comfortable working on the customers vehicle. Say you have a feeling the customer is going to say you damaged something by removing the film. This way you skip the removal, offer 50% back to remedy the situation, and don't run the risk of it escalating due to false damage claims. You are still making decent profit at 50% since you should be profiting at least 80% on jobs. If you do the removal and full refund you just wasted the film, your initial time to install, and your time to remove...that equals zero profit with a lot of wasted time. If the customer is going to leave reviews, that is going to happen no matter the route you take so that doesn't matter. Just take care of your other customers, get them to write positive reviews so that a couple of negatives have no real impact. If you end up acting out just like the crazy customer you're complaining about, how are you any different?

We've dealt with several of these types of customers over the years. If he was that irate on his 1st visit after the job, I would simply offer to remove the tint and give him a full refund. I would not attempt to retint it because chances are he will act the same way and you just wasted time/film trying to make him happy. I would just cut my loses right there and move on. If you don't feel comfortable touching his vehicle again (like he might blame you for damage) then offer a 50% refund and he keeps the film. This way you still made some profit and if he has another shop retint it, he will spend even more money on the removal. So win win.

You can't just buy the film. You have to become a dealer by contacting 3M. You may be contacted by a rep afterwards or "interviewed" by a higher up at 3M before being approved. There is a minimum you have to buy yearly and a higher minimum to be shown on the dealer locator. Yes, they do have territory and enforce it from my experience.

If you are a newer tinter, 3M is not for you. All of their current films are harder to install including their entry level film Obsidian. Crystalline is next level difficult which is why many 3M dealers can't install it. You will have more success starting off with a solid brand that carries more traditional types of films like the some of the brands mentioned already. If I opened another location where Llumar and 3M was already represented in the area, I would probably choose XPEL.

It is common on many Lexus/Toyota models, you can feel that the glass is coated. Like everyone said, same cleaning method as normal just no blades or steel wool that will cut/scratch the coating.

The sad part is you probably could have found a shop that has a Ceramic option for under $300 with warranty. Never buy film online, it is going to be cheap quality film and might not even be a Ceramic. Even if it is Ceramic, that doesn't mean it is a cheap film, many will turn purple in a year in the right climate. Any name brand options online are going to be fake knockoffs since the bigger brands do not allow online sales. I think the only exception is Express window films which is decent. However, much easier just to get everything from a shop.

I've been doing 40% on all my side windows and the front windshield with 20% on the rear window to cut down on headlight glare. 40% is a little light for me but only legal option in Crystalline for GA. I do the windshield darker to help offset the lightness on the sides. I think my next tint job will be not be CR, so thinking 35% windshield, 25% sides, and 15% rear window. I want to be in the middle of legal and privacy. Hopefully that won't attract the police.

Sold

2 hours ago, Ryker said:

The TSER numbers would disagree with you. I am guessing you're basing your thoughts on your French fry lamp.

 

HP films give as much if not more heat rejection then the basic ceramic films.

So once again, besides quoting the TSER, how do you give the customer tangible proof there is a difference? Yes, a heat lamp helps demonstrate the IR difference BUT since you feel Infrared Heat more, they will also notice a difference in their vehicle. How do you do that with HP film? It feels almost identical on a heat lamp as standard dyed films and you can't feel a difference in the vehicle. It is not like flat glass where you can measure it by energy savings. Basically, think of it from a consumers perspective not from a tinters. 

With that being said, I think I will retire from TD. It is just the same threads/topics over and over again plus too many tinters on here that still think it is 1990.

4 minutes ago, Ryker said:

So you are saying that the heat rejection of hp films is not much better than a simply dyed film? Tser would disagree with that!

Exactly! As I stated before, "Just throwing a number at a customer and hope they believe it."

It is part of doing business no matter the industry. There are always wins and loses.

5 hours ago, Sisqouc said:

I think there will always be a market for less than the best of the best for any product.

When you last bought tires, were there not choices as to the mileage ratings?

Furnace filters from simple to MERV 13 ratings?

Blended vs full synthetic oils?

HP is not the entry-level option most shops carry...it is typically an upgrade. HP films can disappear and there will still be a lesser priced option for automotive. Basically, there is no tangible reason to upgrade from a basic color stable film to HP. Just throwing a number at a customer and hope they believe it. Anyways, I think I will move on since you still missed my point of the previous post.

9 hours ago, Sisqouc said:

 

I've curated some IR info from around the net. I do not dispute that IR film out preforms in the lighter shades though.

https://www.bestcaraudio.com/understanding-the-basics-of-window-tint-heat-rejection-specifications/

 

https://www.facebook.com/ProTintGreensboro/posts/what-is-infrared-rejection-what-does-it-mean-to-the-window-fiim-consumerbasicall/924050064308460/

https://windowtintingblog.net/tag/ir-window-film-facts/

https://windowfilmonline.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/infrared-rejection/

 

So you completely missed the point of my post.

58 minutes ago, Sisqouc said:

I agree TSER and other industry recognized measurements are best measurements of overall performance, not IR. It is my customers that call me, after talking to some other shops, asking about the IR. Today a customer said I want the Llumar IRX film that will make my interior 89% cooler! His INTERIOR will be cooler by 89%. WOW. Well that is a horse of another color! He felt he was cognoscenti and anything other than the film he'd already been told about just wouldn't do, even though I tinted the owner of the company he works for Ferrari last month. Because I wouldn't match his enthusiasm for Big Brand Cermic films, he thought I must be a dinosaur. I have three weeks of appointments scheduled for SolarFx HFX (Metalized HP film) installs thankfully.

 

 

It is pretty simple, IR is the heat that you feel more of since it penetrates deeper into the skin. So a customer will feel more of a difference with a high IR film both on the heat lamp and the vehicle. So ideally you want a film with a good TSER along with a high IR rejection. I've ran standard dyed, HP, basic Ceramic, and high IR Ceramic films on my vehicles and I feel cooler with the higher IR films. We dropped the HP option years ago and would never offer it again since there is no value to the customer. I can see HP films fading away in the future as old school tinters retire. In the end, install the film you feel comfortable with no matter the type. Just know that you will be losing some potential customers to the competition since these type of films are in high demand. Being booked up for 3 weeks is great, but being booked up for 3 weeks while charging double your current HP price is much better.

I can't say I noticed VW specifically but I see plenty of newer vehicles with failed film in GA. If it is bubbling then most likely is cheap film. If it is just faded, I have seen brands like Suntek show fading in 4 years in GA. Also, could be Florida vehicles that have a combination of a lot of shops using cheap film and the harsh climate.